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  #1  
Old 02-07-2012, 10:04 PM
jdale jdale is offline
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Forge help

I decided to better insulate the forge with a new lining of Satanite Refractory Mortar and ITC-100, but now the forge won?t stay lit.
I originally had 2" of kaowool lining the forge with a slice of soft firebrick as a floor, worked fine for years. The revamp started with 1" of kaowool, than two applications of Satanite. After the second application dried I went to fire up the burner to fully cure it and it wouldn't stay lit. I figured it had something with changing the volume of the chamber, so I placed a piece of Kaowool inside to see if it would stay lit. With the addition of the piece it did stay lit but the flame no longer looked as if it originated at the burner. The LP did not seem to burn until it made contact with the opposite wall. Im stumped and slightly frustrated that I seemed to have wasted that much Kaowool and Satanite. I don?t want to remove the new lining and start with 2" of kaowool and re-apply the Satanite, is there something I can do to salvage what I already have?

Here are the dimensions im working with.
[IMG][/IMG]

Little hard to read but the inner diameter is aprox 9.5"
the outer forge body is about 1'
the inside length is about 14.5"
the venturi burner tube is 1"

Please forgive the crudeness of the forge. I made it when i was very short in the tooth, it is close to a decade old now and only cost about $2 to make (not including the kaowool) but im rather fond of the old girl.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:11 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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A couple of things to check. First does the burner run steadily if removed from the forge. It should. Could anything have gotten inside the burner tube. Is the air intake clear? What pressure are you running it at? It kind of sounds to me like the burner is out of tune.

Doug


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Old 02-08-2012, 09:05 PM
ron58 ron58 is offline
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ya,it sounds like it's not mixing right!is there anyway the pipe your using for the gas got twisted a little?if it don't shoot straight down the center it won't mix right and it will do like your saying!
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:07 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Is your flare still in place on the business end of the torch? Hard to tell from the pic.
Changing the volume of you interior changes a lot of things regarding back pressure and such, but your torch should still burn pretty well just not efficiently in that large a chamber. Suspect something out of alignment with the torch as mentioned above. Also as simple as it sounds check your tank valve and regulator (if you have one). A low tank can cause those symptoms as well.

As far as the K wool lining, no need to tear out what you've done. Just add another layer of wool/satanite/ITC. Very lightly dampen the surface you have and add the next layers. Make sure you haven't partially blocked the torch portal with any material. The way you have it set right now you will have a hot spot in your forge (obvious in pic). The additional layer will get you closer to a tangential entrance into the forge chamber and improve heat disbursment as well.
Make sure you coat any exposed wool, even outside the chamber, the stuff is constantly releasing small fibers into the air when jostled, or hit by the slightest breeze.....you'll wind up like Doc Holiday without the pistols.


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  #5  
Old 02-09-2012, 10:13 PM
jdale jdale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crex View Post
Is your flare still in place on the business end of the torch? Hard to tell from the pic.
Changing the volume of you interior changes a lot of things regarding back pressure and such, but your torch should still burn pretty well just not efficiently in that large a chamber. Suspect something out of alignment with the torch as mentioned above. Also as simple as it sounds check your tank valve and regulator (if you have one). A low tank can cause those symptoms as well.
I have never had a flare on the burner, my burner is basically a Ron Reil design. I originally tried to make a flare but saw a note on the design page stating one was not needed to operate the forge.

Earlier this evening I re-worked the angle at which the burner entered the forge.


I also took the burner apart, re-aligned the opening, re-assembled and tried to start it....nada. It worked only when in contact with the ignition source I used to ignite it with, once the source was removed it instantly went out. This one is really stumping me, I'm almost at the point where i will shell out the cash for a commercially made burner.
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:10 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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"Flare" is a relative term, basically what you are looking for is a controlled change of pressure at the nozzle end of the torch. When you had 2" of wool it provided a built-in "flare" at the portal through the insulation. You changed that and the interior volume of the forge which alters with the backpressure in the forge as well. With a blown torch you can get away without the differential because you are using forced air. With a venturi it's a matter of proportionality with all factors.
Bottom line is that changing the thickness of your insulation changed everything relative to the forge body and your torch was designed to work under your original scenario.
That is my "guess", I believe if you go back to the original dimemsions all will work as before.
Best of luck in getting it straightened out.


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Old 02-10-2012, 07:05 AM
jdale jdale is offline
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I am hoping it will be as simple as adding another layer of kaowool....fingers crossed.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:45 PM
jdale jdale is offline
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Placed the second layer of kaowool in the forge and she lit up without hesitation. The new angle I put the burner tube on was perfect, even with all the shop lights on i could clearly see the fire vortex. Sung a little Johnny Cash (ring of fire) and went to work putting the Satanite over the kaowool. Thanks for the help everyone!
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:59 AM
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Good deal now hit some steel!


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  #10  
Old 02-19-2012, 05:37 PM
jdale jdale is offline
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Forge update: The forge definitely works, I heat treated fourteen 1095 whittling knives (using parks #50) and a 18" wakizashi also 1095. However I am still having issues with the burner performance. The angle of the burner has to be just right for it to stay lit, and it sputters if the burner tube is not partially in contact with the kaowool. I used the horn of my anvil to create a flare on the end of the burner, and it didn't make a difference. One last issue to whine about than i am done for the day. The burner tube and reducer are rather cool to the touch while the forge is burning but if i not removed from the forge after its turned off the burner tube, reducer, and gas line heat up extremely fast and cause me to worry about damaging the gas line.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:44 AM
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The "flare" has a ratio issue, the venturi concept is a controlled change of pressure at the end of the burner tube. I think the standard is around an 11* change up. Most anvil horns are more than that.
Sounds like the k-wool liner is acting more as your flare control than you realize. Do you have annular spacing around your torch tube where it enters the forge? If this is not minmized and consistant in spacing all the way around the tube, you will get an embalanced air flow into the forge around the tube that will cause the fluttering. Try filling the annular space with a little k-wool to see if it helps - temp fix here - loose k-wool is a health hazard.
The "heat-up" of your torch assembly is rather logical, you have no more cool air being pulled through the torch, but it's still connected to the hot body of the forge. Shouldn't be anything to worry about unlesss you store your forge near flammables after shutting down.


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