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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 05-27-2012, 07:37 PM
SKEELSarms SKEELSarms is offline
 
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newb here

so im new to the knife makin communtiy and just wanted to introduce myself. i see theres a lot of people on here from a few different countries so ill throw out state and country lol. my name is JR and i live here in delaware (USA). ive made a few firearms and a few VERY crude knives (litterally some back woods kinda stuff). ive been lookin around adn readin around and stumbled on this site when i was lookin how to dye scales if im correct. didnt find what i was lookin for but obviously stumbled on enough info to register to the forum haha. so ive got a few knives ill be makin handles for, and so grips i made for my 1911 (which ill post sooner or later). i also have a hatchet blank im lookin to make up nice and pretty. also have a forge in the makin (my welder took a poop so its just a pile of parts for now.

i guess the big question would be where shoul i start as far as forging a knife. ive done enough "smithing" to be comfortable forging and **hint hint** i love damascus. just wonderin if that would be a little out of my skill range or should i start somewhere simpler. thanks guys

JRS
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  #2  
Old 05-27-2012, 08:22 PM
Ed Tipton Ed Tipton is offline
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SKEELSarms...Welcome to the forum. it's always interesting to have new makers who want to run before they can walk.
Making knives is nothing akin to magic, and as an end item, it is not all that complex. However, while the end item itself is not that complex, what goes into the making of knives is challenging and requires specific information.
The heart and soul of a knife is the steel. First of all, not just any steel is suitable for use as a knife, and second is that even if you have a suitable steel, it still needs to be properly heat treated, and it requires proper proportions. The specific use the knife will be called upon to provide will determine much about the ultimate design and even the most appropriate type of steel to be used.
Almost all people on this forum would recommend that you start with a simple steel such as 1080 high carbon steel. The reason for this recommendation is that 1080 is a very forgiving steel, and yet it is capeable of yielding a very good and serviceable knife.
I personally have made something close to 200 knives, and yet I have not strayed very far from the simple steels...not because I don't think I could, but because the simple steels give me everything I need a knife to be.
Making Damascus requires some significant skills which go far beyond what the simple steels demand, and without having considerable experience in knifemaking, it would be an extremely formidable task to produce a quality damascus blade...not to mention the fact that even with a power hammer, it is a work intensive effort.
My suggestion would be to start with something simpler and give yourself a genuine fighting chance to make a good knife. I believe you would be well advised to lower your sights somewhat before attempting to do something that is very challenging even for experienced knifemakers.
The making of a quality knife...even a basic carbon steel design can be very rewarding...not to mention a very good learning experience.
There is always time for Damascus when you have a better handle on the specific challenges and skills that Damascus requires.

Last edited by Ed Tipton; 05-27-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05-28-2012, 08:43 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I agree with Ed, learn to walk before you try to run. You could make some damascus but the expense and the physical effort involved would be considerable. Then you would try to make your knife and probably find out that a) your damascus had faults in it that make your blade defective or b) even if the damascus is fine (unlikely) you only know how to make a crude, clunky looking knife that isn't worth a piece of damascus. And even if by some miracle your damascus is great AND you make a fine looking knife from it it might not hold up under use because you don't have a clue how to heat treat a piece of damascus.

By your own admission the knives you have made are very crude. So, where to start you ask? Learn to shape, heat treat, and finish a simple knife properly. Get your forge finished, get some 1080 or 1084 steel, and then we'll be in a position to make some progress ....


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Old 05-28-2012, 09:26 AM
SKEELSarms SKEELSarms is offline
 
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u know... the military f-ed up my leg so i cant run... i wanna run lol. but on a serious note, this is why i registered to this forum. from reading other threads theres no bashing on what someone wants to do, just a good honest bunch of folks. once the forge is up and runnin i think ill start with another crude piece lol. i have a bunch of hc rr spikes layin around that i might give a go at. or would that be a little more than im wanting to start with? either way, where would i get the 1080 and 1084? how about stainless? the civilian company i work for deals a lot in stainless and i got an unlimited supply of that hahaha. would i just call up a steel shop or is it a little more work than that? thanks guys

JR
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  #5  
Old 05-28-2012, 10:46 AM
Ed Tipton Ed Tipton is offline
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SKEELSarms...The RR spikes are really too low of a carbon content even though they are marked HC. The carbon content in them will run around 35-40% which is too low to make a quality knife...however...they could provide you with some good experience in forging and hammer skills.
I am really not sure about the stainless attributes so I hesitate to comment on that, other than to say that most on this board would favor the 1080-1084 high carbon steel. I am very familiar with the 1080, and I can assure you that it is capeable of producing a fine knife. In general...especially until you become skilled at heat treating and forging, It is recommended that you stick with a known type of steel as opposed to "mystery metal". Later on, if you want to try the "mystery metal" route then you could try and see how it goes. The thing is, with mystery metal, you will be left on your own since if you are unable to tell us exactly what kind of steel you have, we cannot advise you on how to work with it. By waiting...and staying with a recommended steel...we can probably give you sound advise and help you get through the many challenges you will encounter. Then, as your skillset develops, you will be better prepared to branch out on your own...and have a decent chance of suceeding.
The 1080-1084 steel is readily available from the knife suppliers. I have ordered previously from Mr. Kelly Cupples...who is himself a knifemaker. Aldo Bruno the "New Jersey Steel Baron" is also a provider as are many other suppliers such as Alpha Knife supplies and Jantz. It is easy to find...and it is relatively cheap. As knife steel go, there is nothing more available or cheaper to work with than 1080.
Kelly Cupples is very good to work with, and his prices are as good as anybody's.
You can find their contact info on the internet and elsewhere on this forum.
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  #6  
Old 05-28-2012, 11:11 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Stainless steel can make a good knife by stock removal but you have to pay attention to the carbon content. They are not very good candidates for forging because they tend to be difficult to move under the hammer and they have a specific range that they can be worked at. Not hot enough and they will crack; too hot and they will crumble.

To add to the list of steel suppliers that Ed gave, Admiral Steel will also sell blade steels in smaller amounts. Their 1075/1080 seems to be good. Their 1095 tends to be on the low in manganese which will make it more difficult to harden. They also have 5160 and 9260, though you have to by 20-22 foot lengths, cut to shorter lengths for shipping.

I do most of my ordering from The New Jersey Steel Baron. Aldo is a knife maker and he makes sure that the steel he gets is suitable for knife making. I get my 9260 from Admiral only because they are the only ones that carry it that sell it in smaller amounts.

Another problem with railroad spikes is that you have to forge the spike flat before you can forge your blade. I've worked with round 3/4" round stock and that adds a lot of time to the process of forging out a blade. If they are low carbon spikes then you can't heat treat them and heat treating is the major part of making a blade. Even high carbon spikes, which are made from low to moderate carbon steels are probably best used as quenched.


Start out with a known steel. That way once you learn the proper heat treatment for that alloy you can repeat the process. With mystery metal you will have to experiment to find the right temperatures for each piece of steel that you get.

Doug


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  #7  
Old 05-28-2012, 11:51 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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All those suppliers are great, and I'll add alphaknifesupply.com They currently have 1080 in their inventory.

Forget stainless until you have an electric furnace to use for heat treating (if that day ever comes). Trying to HT stainless in a forge is pretty much just kidding yourself ...


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  #8  
Old 05-28-2012, 11:54 AM
SKEELSarms SKEELSarms is offline
 
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awesome, thanks guys. ill be making some cals and hopefully be makin blades in no time.

JR
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