Trying to come up with a maker's mark; Opinions on this one?

[ARCustomKnives]

Hey guys,
I've been wanting to come up with a maker's mark so I can get some etching stencils made fairly soon, and the following photo is something I came up with last night:



So what do you think? Can anyone tell what it is? Or is it a bit too abstract?

[loneronin]

I like it!

[Ray Rogers]

I've got no idea what it is - and that's a big problem where maker's marks are concerned. The whole point of having a mark is to identify the maker of the knife so that, hopefully, an interested customer can locate you and place an order. That mark does not fulfill that purpose. A mark doesn't have to contain your entire biography but a good one does have to be able to lead people to you who don't know anything about you. That means it must contain your name (John Doe Knives) or a business name (Pelican Forge) or at least a clue (J. G. Butte, Montana).

If it doesn't lead people to you it's nothing but a pretty picture ....

[NJStricker]

Some people buy knives to use. Some buy to collect, or to invest. Either way, eventually your knives will make it into the secondary market. Each year on the knife forums there are several posts that goes something like this:

"Hey, I saw a knife that really interests me, but I don't know who the maker is. I really want to contact him to make me a knife similar in design but with micarta handles instead of cocobolo since I want a nice user, and I want 5160 steel instead of 1095. I don't have a picture of his maker's mark because a guy at a knife show was carrying it around and I didn't get a pic. But the mark kind of looked like a crow standing on one foot, and carrying a pitchfork."

Unless somebody, somewhere, on the forums knows your work and makers mark, you've just lost a sale. Google is usually your best friend when it comes to people trying to track you down, but you can't google a picture. . .

[ARCustomKnives]

Originally Posted by Ray Rogers

I've got no idea what it is - and that's a big problem where maker's marks are concerned. The whole point of having a mark is to identify the maker of the knife so that, hopefully, an interested customer can locate you and place an order. That mark does not fulfill that purpose. A mark doesn't have to contain your entire biography but a good one does have to be able to lead people to you who don't know anything about you. That means it must contain your name (John Doe Knives) or a business name (Pelican Forge) or at least a clue (J. G. Butte, Montana).

If it doesn't lead people to you it's nothing but a pretty picture ....

Hmm... I'll go ahead and say what it's supposed to represent, although I would appreciate a few more first impressions/thoughts on what it is.
The design is simply my first and last initials, "AR".
I originally thought about putting my last name on my blades, or even a "business name". I've also seen several makers who put their city and/or state (or even just the outline of their state, which is cool too), but because I'm primarily making smaller, hollow ground neck knives at this point, I wanted to keep it very simple and without a lot of detail, so that a smaller stencil would transfer well.

I mean, I want something that won't take up a majority of my "flat" space on my blades, due to their size, and if I shrink the mark too much, I'm afraid that any smaller font type won't come out well. I could be wrong, but also at the same time, I really just want a simple stencil that's easy to produce and take care of.

I'm far from a webpage/google search phase, but I figured at that time, people could just google "AR knives" and find my page. I realize it takes a little bit more "intuition" than "John Doe Knives" stamped on a blade, but I've also seen several other knife makers with just initials, so I don't know.

[Ray Rogers]

Googling AR Knives would probably work....or it might come up with a list of knife makers in Arkansas. Definitely keep it simple, but text can be made to work in very small sizes, easier than a picture. Heck, searching for 'Rogers Knives' will bring up several custom makers as well as a commercial maker or two. At least once a year I get an inquiry from someone who owns a commercial Rogers knife looking for a warranty. Even their commercial mark isn't substantial enough to guide these people to the right maker!

Realize also that it isn't just about sales. You may never be a BIG NAME knife maker whose knives are sought after and collected by one and all but you will probably make some very nice knives in the years to come. Some of those knives WILL be in collections and some of them will still exist possibly hundreds of years from now. No one may know anything of substance about you at that time but by golly they could at least know the name of the man that made that knife!! But, only if you help them now.

So, that's the information and the reasons why the best mark is simply your name or business name and maybe location. Do whatever you feel is right for you.....

[ARCustomKnives]

Originally Posted by NJStricker

Some people buy knives to use. Some buy to collect, or to invest. Either way, eventually your knives will make it into the secondary market. Each year on the knife forums there are several posts that goes something like this:

"Hey, I saw a knife that really interests me, but I don't know who the maker is. I really want to contact him to make me a knife similar in design but with micarta handles instead of cocobolo since I want a nice user, and I want 5160 steel instead of 1095. I don't have a picture of his maker's mark because a guy at a knife show was carrying it around and I didn't get a pic. But the mark kind of looked like a crow standing on one foot, and carrying a pitchfork."

Unless somebody, somewhere, on the forums knows your work and makers mark, you've just lost a sale. Google is usually your best friend when it comes to people trying to track you down, but you can't google a picture. . .

I think I just found my mark! The one legged, hay bailing crow!

I completely get where you and Ray are coming from, but I was hoping that it was a bit more obvious that they were initials. It's kinda funny: out of a dozen or more people that I've asked, it seems like only the knife makers are having trouble seeing it.

I'm definitely not at the point that I'm necessarily "looking" for sales or secondary market referalls, as up until now I'm trying to keep it super simple and do not feel comfortable offering too many options to very many people.

My original idea was to design a handful of templates, and then get 15 or 20 completed blades together so that I could set up a small table at a local gun/knife show and see how my designs did. At that point, or soon after, I plan to have AT LEAST some business cards and ideally, even a basic website, and hopefully through the sale of a few knives, some funds to expand my capabilities. But the point of my mark in that situation would more simply be to give a more professional look to my knives and provide a "signature" so that someone else couldn't claim it.

I don't know... I may play with a little more. I do appreciate the input (and anything additional) and value it immensely. Thanks guys!

[ARCustomKnives]

Originally Posted by Ray Rogers

Googling AR Knives would probably work....or it might come up with a list of knife makers in Arkansas. Definitely keep it simple, but text can be made to work in very small sizes, easier than a picture. Heck, searching for 'Rogers Knives' will bring up several custom makers as well as a commercial maker or two. At least once a year I get an inquiry from someone who owns a commercial Rogers knife looking for a warranty. Even their commercial mark isn't substantial enough to guide these people to the right maker!

Realize also that it isn't just about sales. You may never be a BIG NAME knife maker whose knives are sought after and collected by one and all but you will probably make some very nice knives in the years to come. Some of those knives WILL be in collections and some of them will still exist possibly hundreds of years from now. No one may know anything of substance about you at that time but by golly they could at least know the name of the man that made that knife!! But, only if you help them now.

So, that's the information and the reasons why the best mark is simply your name or business name and maybe location. Do whatever you feel is right for you.....

You know, those are some very good points. I actually just googled "Riley Knives" as that's my last name, and it appears there's a maker by the name of Dennis Riley in AZ with some very nice work. So even just a last name on the ricasso could be misleading in my case. I suppose A. Riley could work for the time being.

At the same time, I'm not to the point in my knife making that people will eventually try to look me up based on current designs. I mean, I definitely take pride in what I'm putting out, and I think they're some fine looking utility blades, but it's no where close to stuff like... well... YOUR work.
I hope I get as good as some of the work I've seen from you, that's for dang sure.

I suppose I can play with it a little more, but I do like the design above too. Maybe I'll see if I can incorporate it into something a little more detailed. You've definitely given me some good things to think about.

[Ray Rogers]

OK then, one last thing. You're talking about your needs for your mark now as being possibly different from your needs in the future. True enough. BUT....

I had my stencils made about 15 years ago and I'm still using those same stencils. At the time, I paid $100 for them. So, pay it once or pay it twice if you like.

AND, later on down the road anyone who sees your new mark for Alphonse Riley Knives will know exactly who made the knife but the collector 200 years from now will never be sure if that same maker also made the AR knife and, if so, just how many different marks did this guy use, for Pete's sake?

I lay awake at night worrying about this stuff...

[Karl B. Andersen]

Your parents gave you your Maker's Mark when you were born - your name.

[Woodchuck Forge]

+1 for name. My initials are ACR and I used it for many of my earlier pieces. It did not look very professional and did not give any indication as to who I was. I have gone to A. C. Richards. I do it with a jeweler engraver and looks much nicer and can be easy to change.

[Mike Turner]

I am with Karl and Chuck, the best makers mark is the one you were born with. I use my name that way there is no mistaken who made the knife when I am gone.

[NJStricker]

OK--so I DID do a google search for AR knives. Found that Gerber has and AR model of knife, so does Strider. It also did show various sites for knives in Arkansas, several pages pointing to A.G. Russell, who is in Arkansas.

[ARCustomKnives]

Originally Posted by NJStricker

OK--so I DID do a google search for AR knives. Found that Gerber has and AR model of knife, so does Strider. It also did show various sites for knives in Arkansas, several pages pointing to A.G. Russell, who is in Arkansas.

I did that too. But then again, If I do a URL with ARKnives in it, or even ARCustomKnives, that will take precedent in the search if I'm not mistaken.

I mean, I could just do Andrew Riley or Drew Riley I guess, but I'd really like something with a bit more flare.




There are a couple more ideas I came up with. I'm still kind of toying with it. I might even do once similar to the first photo with "custom" above "knives" and centered with the AR.

[Ed Caffrey]

I would highly encourage you to go with your name. Initials, or obscure logos only make it more difficult for someone to know who made the knife, and if they cannot clearly identify the maker, or find the maker, then they certainly cannot order a knife from you.

Take a look at this article I wrote: http://www.caffreyknives.net/Makersmarkarticle.html Pay particular attention to the "Choosing your Mark" section.