Handwork......

[Sweany]

Just wanted to start another thread from the FMF or full moon forging thread.


I made some comments and wanted to further delve into this subject but my puter pooped out and it went away.


Later though gotta go

You ain't gett'n outta here that easy.

When the blood thing came up, you said your God requires you to speak. You said you will serve your God. You also said that you do not insist that people believe in your God , but you are required to tell them.

Does your God want you to just speak and tell them, or does your God want to to speak and tell, in a responsible and fruitfull manner? If what you speak is not fruitfull, but only causes confusion and strife, how have you servered your God? I do not see your God in the things you say, I only see Sweany.

It seems like everytime a topic comes up that might appear un-Christian to some... some Christian will jump in with a prepackaged cliche sermonette, that has no bearing on the topic at all. It ruins the topic and no one learns anything. I think that you should think before you speak and make sure you are not just regurgitating Christian "jargon" on us. I like you Sweany, you are a bro, but I think you have a real problem in this area.

Your God does not need you to defend Him, you need Him to defend you.

[Sweany]

What's cliche in what I said?


God wants a willing servant. I can present what i know of God which will be imperfect, as I am imperfect.

Sure I could hold a gun to someones's head, or knive to the throat as the case may be, and scream repent and be baptised or die. I have no doubt a lot of people would be baptised but to what end?

Now God could insist that everybody serve him but he doesn't. SO If I tell you about Him and what He has done in my life, where is the harm in that?

Where have you heard before that this man namely me /Sweany was living in a hell here on earth? That I was one step from suicide and was saved?

What christian, told you that there are demons here on earth, that the spirit world is more real than we are. Maybe I didn't use those exact words but that was the intent of the whole discussion.



Confusion? I guess you are right. My main concern was with the ritual thing. I respondeded to the post as having forged under a full moon. I did not preform any ritual, or cult activity. I wanted that to be clear. Use of blood is a powerful thing, and not to be taken lightlly.

A lot of people want to have a discussion that only bears out what "they" said, well there was plenty against what I said. I thought I was simply discussing my side of the discussion.

I am sorry you only saw Sweany.

Yes, i really care about people, and yes I wish they had what I have.


Flip it over. What would you say to me?

I don't need to defend my God. My intent was to explain.

[Sweany]

Is Magic real? Are spells and incantations real?

[Sweany]

I'm taking this as consturctive criticism, ya know.

Hope I didn't sound like a sermon.

O.K. you came out and said the your God abors these kinds of things, refering to the blood letting on the billet. You did not "explain" why. You did not convince us that it was wrong, in a manner we could agree with, thus it was fruitless.

You also did not ask questions on the intent or purpose of the blood letting, and assumed it was evil. I don't think this was fair.

The topic was "Full Moon Forging", the blood letting thing was a side topic. I don't think the author who made the post was trying to change the topic, but was just coloring his post some.

All I see in the full moon thread are a lot of guys aguing there religious beliefs. I don't see anyone convicing the other to convert, or any real discusion about the original topic.

Is ritual smithing in and of itself evil? What if the ritual was to pray to Jesus before lighting the forge? would that be evil, magic or an incantation?

"Iron sharpeneth iron, so one man sharpeneth another."

I think that if you believe something is evil, then for "you" it is evil.

[J.Arthur Loose]

O.K., since my post got brought up and was the spark that got this fire up and running...

That blade had nothing to do with anything bad. In fact, it has been a comfort and a healing tool for the customer I made it for. She had been going through a very bad time and was in the process of losing most of her possessions through a civil court process in which she was the victim. She wanted something they could -never- take from her and we sat down and talked about different ways to make her feel that way. I had a friend who is a registered nurse draw the blood to be safe. Why a knife? The Athame that most Wiccans use is a symbolic tool... much like a crozier or censer and many aren't even sharpened! These guys have as their first tenet: 'An First, Ye do no harm.'

The 'magic,' of the piece was symbolic... as is most 'magic'. A 'ritual,' can be a symbolic act that helps you remember a change you are making/ enduring in your life. I know blood and knives are scary... but that is what we a Bladesmiths do. We make knives that draw blood; we have been the backbone of countless wars and fights since time imemmorable. The Smith is thus regarded with both reverence and suspicion all over the world...

My only objection to Sweany's response to my original post is that it becomes quite dangerous when one Faith starts interpreting others within it's own context.

I can agree to disagree on that; and mean you no harm either, Sweany.

_________________

"Now in the parts of Germany such shaving, especially of the secret parts, is not generally considered delicate, and therefore we Inquisitors do not use it; but we cause the hair of their head to be cut off, and placing a morsel of Blessed Wax in a cup of Holy Water and invoking the most Holy Trinity, we give it them to drink three times on a fasting stomach, and by the grace of God we have by this means caused many to break their silence. But in other countries the Inquisitors order the witch to be shaved all over her body. And the Inquisitor of Como has informed us that last year, that is, in 1485, he ordered forty-one witches to be burned, after they had been shaved all over."

-Malleus Maleficarum, Liturgical publication; 1486, PART III., SECOND HEAD, QUESTION IV.

[ghostdog]

Tai, I wish you had not brought this over to another thread, I was doing real good ignoring that other thread. But now I have to dip my paddle.

Jon in reference to the quote on the botom of your post that references Inquisition; do not confuse religion with Christianity.

Religion is what killed Jesus too.

A Christian could no more take part in the horrors that were the Inquisition than a true Heathen could worship Jesus.

Many crimes were commited and are being commited in the guise of Christianity but the fruits are the plum in the pudding.

What most people don't understand (and how can they?) is that God changes Christians, the 10 commandments become part of them, acts of violence are foreign to them.






ghostdog

[J.Arthur Loose]

Hey Ghostdog,

I'm really on your side on this one.

I attached that quote as an example of what happens when people start looking for 'Evil'.

More of it happens... that's all.

As a piece of trivia though... a true Heathen -can- actually worship Jesus and there are examples of it happening in the Icelandic Sagas. 'Just another God,' was the thought on the subject, although the Church wasn't happy about it.

I'm not saying that to disprove your point... I just thought it was a funny observation.

Ghostdog, Sweany started this thread.

I don't think Jesus came to start another religion... just the opposite, Jesus came to end religion once and for all. Religion is a way for some people to control other people. Jesus was about freedom.

Hey Sweany, for the most part here, you're preaching to the choir.