FEGA Bulino Tape Revisted

[Andy S]

Sorry to hash this up again but........
I just got my bulino tape and I have some questions that weren't addressed to my satisfaction on the tape. Namely the fact that Chris said to not put a heel on the graver. This makes sense for the dotting tool but the line tool just wants to bury itself. I ended up putting a 15 degree heel on a 60 degree tool and it seems to work right. What is the advantage of no heel? Maybe some of you have worked through this already and have an answer.

[MCirelli]

I questioned that also. I think maybe when he cuts his 60 or 80 or whatever on, he puts his lift on that. In other words he may cut a 60 degree graver at a 5 or 10 degree lift. Because he talks of having it polish face and belly may be the reason for no heel. To be sure that every cut is a polished cut on the sides. Just my thoughts.
Mike C.

[John B.]

I bought both the tape and the casting and just like Andy, I have questions. When I look at the casting under the microscope I see many cuts and dots that don't match the way the tape describes the placement of them.
I wonder if it's just a matter of the difference between theory and practice?
Maybe Chris will be able to put some of our questions to bed when he returns from Italy.
I'd sure like to try following his method exactly.

JohnB.

[Ray Cover Jr]

OK fellas,

I have already worked through all the puzzling questions you guys are facing now.

First off there is no heel at all on the graver. As a matter of fact you want that point as needle sharp as you can get it. There is not even a polished rounded corder to get lift. There is no lift. I know this seems to defy the laws of physics but it does work. However, there is a little trick to it and there are some trade offs.

First. When you grind the belly down to 80 degrees from the 90 degree blank you need to have the tool post angle on your sharpening fixture set at about 12 degrees. This puts the cutting angle at a proper approach angle for the piece to cut rather than dig.

Second. it is not possible to cut any kind of curve with this without leaving a bit of belly scrape on the after edge of the cut. That is why most bulino is sanded back, The slight sanding (and I mean slight) deburs the scrapes.

Third The cuts made by these gravers are very light. Heavy cuts will cause the graver to dive as well.


On most stuff this is not an issue since you are crosshatching with layers straight lines rather than cutting archs. When doing curved lines in hair you may cut archs but that is one of the few times you will use a curved line.

Here are two shots of a piece I am currently working on (keep in mind this is not a finished product yet). I have shown a close up and a big blow up so you can see the cuts.
Even the wavy lines in her hair are done with a no heel graver.

I will have this piece and I will bring a couple of my gravers with me to Atlanta if any of you want to check them out. You will have to bring your own loup to inspect the gravers as I don't have one.

[Andy S]

Man, that really looks great Ray. Are all the dots used in your scene done with the pick method or are some punch type dots?....I'm very impressed with your work. Hope I can learn to do it as well someday
When you say that we need to use a 12 degree tip n the fixture we are in effect creating a heel angle...albeit a very long one . Without this I can not get the graver low enough because of my fingers getting in the way.

By the way what type graver are using for the line tool....Cobalt?...

I look forrward to seeing this piece at the Blade show.

[Ray Cover Jr]

Andy,

In essence that is what the 12 degree post angle creates. Although it is not used as a heel while cutting it does allow you to have a proper approach angle for cutting without having to have the graver flat against the steel.

I usually have this new "Belly" ground so it is about 1/8" to 3/16" back on the graver blank from the tip. It does look like an extremely long heel. I don't usually go any farther back than that becaseu you have to refresh this every now and then. If you grind too much back you have no room to regrind it to clean it up when needed.

I only made a "C" in high school physics (the math in that class killed me) and I have not figured out mechanically what is happening with this. I just know it works.

There seems to be enough natural resistance or upward push from the steel being cut that you can cut shallow lines with these gravers without a heel. There definitly is a point of no return where the graver dives if you cut deeper than that. Once you get the feel for it you can use that to your advantage by cutting tapers or lines that flare on the end to create certain shadow effects.

There is a certain point up to which you can cut a straight flat line for quite a long distance and the steel pushes back on the graver keeping the cuts on the surface and not letting it dive under.

---I am using cobalt blanks from N'graver. They are .085 square and cost $36 for a package of 6. (if I remember right thats what the last batch I bought cost me). I really have not experimented with anything else. These work so well for me I have not bothered to try any others.

---The dots are all cut dots rather than punched dots. I have grown to prefer the cut dot for several reasons. The main one being that you are actually removing the metal and leaving the design below the surface instead of just displacing it and leaving a raised crater on the surface. The second is that I can cut the dots under my microscope. I could not do that with a punch because the punch obstruced my view fo the work.

You will notice that my dots are not perfect diamond shapes like some of the Italian work out there. I don't get too anal about the shape of the dot. Mine are actually more "elongated kite" or "tadpole" shaped. I cut mine very fast in machine gun fashion.

No one has refused a piece they ordered because my dots were not the "right "shape. Plus you have to radically magnify the piece to see the shape of the dots anyway. In short it doesn't affect the normal veiwing or look of the finished product.

[Andy S]

By the way Ray....is there any ink in the cuts in those photos? And another question....what grit finish do you normally put down before starting the engraving. I have played with differant finishes for normal scroll work but I am not sure what gives the proper contrast for the bulino stuff. I'm thinking 600 grit maybe?.....thanks, Andy

[Ray Cover Jr]

Andy,

I know the Italian guys don't use ink but I do. I recently examined a piece by a very famous Italian artist that was not inked. Quite frankly, I could not see it. At least I could not see the whole image at one time other than in a photo where the knife had been specially lit to make it all show up. I suspect that a little bit of ink would have made that piece viewable on the knife itself rather than having to look at a photo to see what I was looking at on the knife.

Granted its just my opinion, but I feel that work that can't be seen without going to special extremes (ie taking a photo of it) is pointless. Thats why I always ink my bulino even though it is not the traditional thing to do. I use Windsor Newton lamp black artist oil for that.

I usually use either an 800 grit wet or dry finish or a 1500 micro graded paper finish. The micro graded paper is my favorite. I usually use micro graded paper to sand back too. I use 3200 micro paper for that.

600 is fine for scroll work but use a thicker paint the windsor newton is ground fine enough to stick in the sanding marks on 600 grit.

Ray

[MCirelli]

WOW Ray
What an education. I have to thank you for the insight. When you say you do your dots in a machine gun action, do you crank up the impacts to 4000 or is it done at slower impacts?
. That engraving is going to be beautiful. Your work is magnificent.
Thanks again you just shaved off about six months or more of the learning curve.
Mike C.

Complements too Andy for getting this thread started.

[Ray Cover Jr]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Mike,

I don't use my graver max to do the dots. I use a push graver. The impact from a power graver will break of the delicate point on that graver. The graver needs to be pushed into the metal not hammered in.

I do use the power for the lines though.

When I say that I do it machine gun style I mean that I don't sit there and contemplate every cut. I cut them very quickly. Stick the graver point in and flick out the chip. Probably cutting about one or two chips a second. This is cutting fast but an average of 75 dots per minute still takes a long time when you start counting the dots.

To cover any kind of area you have to cut them fast. Even cutting it like that, this piece will take about three weeks for me to do start to finish. Of course, there are times when you have to stop cutting and think and analyze what you have done and where you need to go. I will end up having an entire day just in her face by time I'm finished.

Here is a pic of my dot graver. I turned the wood on my lathe and cut the end of a .223
military round for the ferrel (drilled out the primer pocket of course). I have short stubby hands and factory made graver handles are too large and awkward for me so I made these smaller ones to fit.

If you are going to be at the Blade show I will have one with me so you can check out the real thing. Sometimes its hard to see whats going on in a picture.

[Andy S]

I wouldn't put THAT in my carry on luggage or we won't be seing YOU any time soon

[mgdesigns]

WOW!! This is so incredible, to have this educational material here, for free!! Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge that obviously has taken a long time to learn and become such an expert. Again, as a newbie engraver, I am overwhelmed. I cannot wait to see these engravings, and the tools, and to meet you at the Blade Show.

In regards to the Blade Show - Will there be anyone demonstrating? I have heard that GRS will have an exhibit (Lee Griffiths?), but will anyone else be demonstrating the actual engraving of knives, or other materials? I am more than curious to learn the setups, and view the techniques of others. Maybe find ways to improve my techniques, and cut this learning curve down to size.

Sincerely,

MG in Nashville, TN

[bigaustin]

IS IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE THIS ?

[lgrif]

I will be at the BLADE show and hope everyone drops by to say hi and talk engraving. I will be a the GRS/Glendo booth and will be demonstrating anything one wants to see so come by and have some fun. I'm leaving this morning for a week of teaching and won't be able to visit this forum for a week or so. Cheers

[Ray Cover Jr]

Big Austin,

Your second picture is correct. On the first picture your graver should be rotated 50 degrees to one side and then 50 degrees to the other. I shouldn't be ground verticle or striaght up and down.

Ray