MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > High-Performance Blades

High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:29 PM
Chris Daigle's Avatar
Chris Daigle Chris Daigle is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 814
Cool Blade thickness before sharpening...

Jerry, I know this may be very subjective. But, could you give me the low-down on what your edge thickness is prior to sharpening? I realize this may all depend on the size and usage of the knife, and that's what I'm looking to hear. Has your thinking on this changed over the years given the new steels available?

Many thanks,
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-03-2002, 10:36 PM
Jerry Hossom Jerry Hossom is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 411
I am all over the map on this one. It depends on all the things you've mentioned. The most extreme example is a machete, which I've made 0.110" thick and will just sharpen it from there, running a wide convex edge as much as 3/8" up the blade. At the other end of the spectrum, a small utility knife in 3V or S30V, I'd probably thin it to about 0.010-0.015" before sharpening. Most tacticals, on which I want a strong edge, I keep them about 0.040" and use fairly slack belt to produce a convex edge. For hunters, which I think are more subject to abuse than most people think, I use about 0.025". As I read this I realize it's probably more confusing than helpful, but ask please questions if I can elaborate on anything.


__________________
Jerry Hossom
http://www.hossom.com

New Email Address: jerry@hossom.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-04-2002, 07:46 AM
Chris Daigle's Avatar
Chris Daigle Chris Daigle is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 814
No Jerry, that is exactly what I was asking about. I guess my only other question is whether you keep anything (like the tip) slightly thicker because you know it will see more abuse, or is everything ground evenly.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-04-2002, 10:17 PM
Jerry Hossom Jerry Hossom is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 411
I keep the point heavier on stabbing blades only, not on utilities or hunters where you sometimes need a fine point.


__________________
Jerry Hossom
http://www.hossom.com

New Email Address: jerry@hossom.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-06-2002, 07:49 PM
BowlesKnives BowlesKnives is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Alabama
Posts: 13
Lightbulb

Jerry,

I use the same exact measurements on my stuff. Great minds must think alike


__________________
Keep It Sharp,

Chris Bowles
www.bowlesknives.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-07-2002, 08:35 AM
Jerry Hossom Jerry Hossom is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 411
Must be so, Chris. It just took me a LOT longer to get there than it did you...


__________________
Jerry Hossom
http://www.hossom.com

New Email Address: jerry@hossom.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-25-2002, 03:33 AM
Jason Cutter Jason Cutter is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,903
Question tip strength from other methods

Hello to all makers,

Aside from keeping the tip a little thick, what about other methods. I have tried 2 different ways - either shaping the blade so that there is plenty of blade behind the edge (the tip always has around a 90-degree angled shape to it) and secondly, while tempering and drawing down the spine, I give the tip a very, very quick blast with the torch, just enough for the tip to turn blue while the rest of the blade stays straw. I had no tip breakages since I started doing that on fine-pointed knives.

Have you done anything like this and if so, has it worked for you ? I know its a little different from the original question of edge thickness.

Thanks heaps.


__________________
JASON CUTTER BLADEART
Jason Cutter @ Dr Kwong Yeang
Knifemaker, Australia
(Matthew 10.16)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-03-2002, 10:53 AM
Dan Graves Dan Graves is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: shreveport, La. 71105
Posts: 991
tip

Jason,

I dont want to turn this thread around, But this is a question I have been toying with. If I grind a thin point I also let the tip go blue. If a thick point is ground I will leave the tip alone. I have tried to break the tip and it has a spring to it and can sharpened.
I believe this is a form of differential heat treat.

Dan
www.theknifemaker.com


__________________
Dan Graves
www.theknifemaker.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-20-2002, 02:05 PM
Gene Gene is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mayo, Florida
Posts: 184
Question Blade thickness before sharpening

Have any of you guys used the two compressed paper wheels for putting the first edge on a new knife?

I just completed my first knife (in 61 years), and big California Bowie, and I'm ready to sharpen it.

If you know anything about those paper wheels, I'd love to hear from you.

Thank you!

Gene
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-20-2002, 07:22 PM
Dan Graves Dan Graves is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: shreveport, La. 71105
Posts: 991
paper wheels

Gene, I use my belt grinder with a 220 grit (that is used) and after I draw the wire edge, I use the cardboard wheel with polishing rouge. This polishes the wire edge off for a good edge. The abrasive wheel puts on a different egde than I use, so I dont use it a lot. Somebody else out there may know more details on how to use it. Good luck.


__________________
Dan Graves
www.theknifemaker.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-21-2002, 04:21 AM
C L Wilkins C L Wilkins is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 186
Jason and Dan,
That is an interesting concept. I never thought of doing that however a light bulb just came on. I am going to have to play with this.

Craig


__________________
"When I first started, I didn't know anyone that made knives. Now, all my friends are knifemakers."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-23-2002, 09:20 AM
Jerry Hossom Jerry Hossom is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 411
I also use a slack belt, starting at 120 or 220 depending on blade size, to lay in the initial bevels and proceed out through the finest grit belts I can get (Norton Norax #5 which is about 2000 grit). Then I touch it lightly to a loose buff with white compound to flick off that last little bit of wire.

I think the cardboard wheels are for sharpening an already shaped edge and would be tough to use for laying in the primary bevel. I've not used them though and could be very wrong about that. If you don't have a grinder available, I'd probably use a series of wet and dry papers on a hard backing like a small flat board, starting at maybe 80 grit to lay in the bevel and running out in finer grits as far as needed. After that, the cardboard wheels might work OK.


__________________
Jerry Hossom
http://www.hossom.com

New Email Address: jerry@hossom.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-23-2002, 09:55 AM
Gene Gene is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mayo, Florida
Posts: 184
Talking Blade thickness before sharpening

Hi Jerry -

Thank you very much for your kind reply!

Lemme explain here for a second: I made this knife by stock reduction, and when I made the blade I didn't have a "real" belt grinder. All I had was a Mickey Mouse little Sears Chinese belt sander. But since this was flat gound, that was sufficient.

And, objectively (I think) it really turned out beautifully.

But then, after it was heat treated, I bought a new Grizzly 2 x 72 grinder for the other knives I'm making, which are hollow ground.

But I'm new and dumb, and earlier on, when I saw these paper wheels for sale, and after reading somewhere that guys use them, I bought a set (they're very cheap). But, when I got right down to sharpening, I put up these posts, trying to learn whether there were any special tricks to using these wheels. THEN, FOR THE FIRST TIME, I learned that not everybody is crazy about the wheels, and most of the makers do their sharpening like you do.

But I had an old Bowie blade which was ruined in heat treating, so I tried it on the wheels, and they REALLY produced a fine 20 - 25 degree extremely sharp and uniform edge. I was really happy with it!

So - what the heck - I just went ahead and ground in and buffed an edge on my new Bowie with the paper wheels, and I am extremely happy with the result.

Of course it does not have the "apple seed" edge most of you guys seem to prefer. The wheels produce strictly a flat edge, rather than a convex edge like yours. But for this particular knife, for my son, that's what I wanted anyway. It will never be used for hacking or heavy bone cutting. In fact, the knife will probably never be "used" at all; it'll only be "shown".

The wheels produced exactly the edge I wanted, and I am delighted with them. I realize a lot of edges will shave newspaper print, but this edge will do that also, yet it's not a "straight razor" edge, it's a good strong cutting edge.

But on my next knife, the big Persian Fighter, I'll use your technique.

Thank you very much!

Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Gene
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-23-2002, 01:17 PM
Jerry Hossom Jerry Hossom is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 411
Gene, I know a knifemaker I respect very much who uses those wheels, and also uses them to sharpen industrial cutter blades. He swears by them. I didn't think they would cut well enough to profile an edge. If it works, it works and that's all that matters. No need to be apologetic. The people who do best in this business are those who try things and are not afraid to mess something up in the effort. I'll bet the best knifemakers have thrown away the most steel.


__________________
Jerry Hossom
http://www.hossom.com

New Email Address: jerry@hossom.com
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-23-2002, 05:32 PM
Gene Gene is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mayo, Florida
Posts: 184
Talking Blade thickness before sharpning

Thanks for the note, Jerry, you've very kind.

There is one little matter I forgot to mention, however, which has a bearing on the overall merits of the RAZOR EDGE KNIFE COMPANY paper wheel system.

As I mentioned, I tried the gritted wheel on the throw-away Bowie blade. But the blade was fairly sharp before it was heat treated; possibly a 64th or less. And I only made about, I don't recall exactly, perhaps three passes on each side, and it would shave, with only a burr up near the point. So I did not use the buffing wheel on that junk Bowie blade, because I was not interested in making it a flawless edge.

So then I did my new Bowie blade, as I mentioned, plus I also did use the white compound wheel for this blade.

But just that much grinding with the silicone carbide wheel - perhaps a total of 16 passes - and the gritted wheel was worn out. Slick. No grinding surface left.

The silicone carbide wheel is obviously only good for one or, at the very most, two large blades. Then it must be resurfaced (which sounds like a chore to me!), or replaced.

But they do supply you with a little cannister of silicone carbide, plus instructioins on how to re-surface that wheel. However, as cheap as those wheels are, I would just buy a new one knife or two - IF I were going to continue to use that system.

I'm extremely pleased with the wheels, and will probably use them on my Persian Fighter also.

Thanks again for all your help!

Gene
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, knife, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved