heat treating 4140 dies?

[brucep]

Hi everyone!

I just finished up my smithin magician assembly and am looking to make a fullering Die for it (and some other dies later). I have two sets of die blanks in 4140 and 1018.
The 1018 I see I can heat to 1500 or so and quench in water, is this brine or water do you think?

On the 4140, it looks like it needs more like 1600 and wants an oil quench. This is not a problem but the tempering heat needs to be 800+, yes? This may be a problem for me.
I may be able to regulate my new propane forge to that temp, but for sure the stove won't get there. Any other ideas?

Also, can I just harden the working ends of these dies?
If I do, do you think I could just heat a separate piece to radiant and press it against the hardened end and watch the color to get the temper I need?

For a fullering die, I may not even need to heat treat, but eventually I plan to make a tennon and a cutoff die, those will need treatment I am sure.

[DiamondG Knives]

Bruce,

I may be off track here, as Im not sure what the "smithing magician" is. Im going to assume that it is a press or a hammer.

If that is the case, IMHO you are wasting your time hardening your dies, and possibly creating a hazard. If the face is hardened, it can send broken chips at VERY high rates of speed. Hammer and press dies get VERY hot, and I belive this may negate any heat treatment put to them.

Please accept my aplogy if you are speaking of a diffrent type of machinery

God Bless
Mike

[brucep]

Here is a link.

Smithin magician

Here is a description from the 4140 Die blank section

"4140 Die Blank

Medium carbon tool steel for non-cutting tools such as fullers and butchers. 3/4"x2"x7" blank makes one complete top and bottom die set. Hardening and tempering instructions included. "

So it sure looks like the intention they have is for you to harden them.

You make a good point about the heat though. My intent is to use the fullering die on billets for pattern welded blades. I would think though that hardening the work faces would be OK, but that hardening the top of the die (where the hammer strikes) would be a chipping hazard as you mention.

Any other opinions?

[DiamondG Knives]

That sure is a great looking tool! Please keep us posted on how it works.

Since the manufacturer suggests heat treating, and includes instructions on how to do it, Im guessing that it needs to be.

I was refering mainly to my experiance with presses and limited experiance with hammers. I know my press dies get so hot, they will raise a NICE blister (dont ask me how I know ) But in your application, it may be a whole diffrent animal.

God Bless
Mike

[brucep]

What?
A blister?
You mean like from touching hot metal?
I really can't see how that could ever happen in a forge.

The tool is pretty cool, I can't wait to see how well it works.

[DiamondG Knives]

Bruce
If you can, please post some photos of it!

[brucep]

Will do.

Which reminds me, I need to post a pic of my home made forge.