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  #1  
Old 10-13-2020, 07:00 PM
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WASP WASP is offline
 
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Dating this Model 1-7

Hello, I recently received this Model 1-7 and as far as I was able to search I guess it would be a late 60's to early 70's model. But not sure. Thanks in advance.

121590716-4562408413772528-7811915725735556184-n

121624443-625729391433182-7512190890662054766-n

121510741-686960728922726-959497112887774253-n

121541147-711075819498984-1161530390447552154-n

121666580-257225822399457-4453673744255828438-n

121555864-976196156222532-308289120066060493-n

121614959-655560538474996-7597877598491951949-n

121522386-672839883358929-5757158282808893141-n

121543874-1033816127056985-325701528455239450-n

121549822-464527784507660-4743670074029286331-n


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  #2  
Old 10-14-2020, 09:47 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Welcome, Patrick. Great knife in beautiful condition. You can bracket the date within 5 years as follows:

1. The spacers (For this leather handled knife) are "3 thick two thin", which puts it 1972 or earlier.

2. The blade stamp is "Type 3" (See Jacknola thread about dating by blade stamp below). This puts it post 1966.

Good show on the book.

Ron
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2020, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBlade View Post
Welcome, Patrick. Great knife in beautiful condition. You can bracket the date within 5 years as follows:

1. The spacers (For this leather handled knife) are "3 thick two thin", which puts it 1972 or earlier.

2. The blade stamp is "Type 3" (See Jacknola thread about dating by blade stamp below). This puts it post 1966.

Good show on the book.

Ron
Thanks Ron for the information. I really appreciate it.
I'm happy that I was not too far from what I was thinking.
What I like is the different blade point, that is it more ridged (?).
I like the Model #1 and since the 1990's I used several and this one is different of what you commonly see.

121623688-675433209773356-786199452323004449-n


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  #4  
Old 10-24-2020, 10:15 PM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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Nice knife and BoBlade is always the most reliable commentator. I might postulate age of knife a hair later... 72-73 or so ... because the sheath has only the length number, not model number.

This is not something I’ve delved into or extensively researched. I just have an feeling that the omission of the model stamp number on fighter sheaths (possibly to allow use of same sheath for models 1 and 5 without causing questions from customers) was post US withdrawal from Vietnam in 1973. On the other hand, the white stone might be an anomaly in that case. Also the stitching on the butterfly (closely paralleled lines of stitching neatly radiused at top) is distinctive of a certain leather worker ... and I don’t think it appears after about ‘73. I would welcome being corrected if wrong.

Last edited by Jacknola; 10-24-2020 at 10:48 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-25-2020, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknola View Post
Nice knife and BoBlade is always the most reliable commentator. I might postulate age of knife a hair later... 72-73 or so ... because the sheath has only the length number, not model number.

This is not something I’ve delved into or extensively researched. I just have an feeling that the omission of the model stamp number on fighter sheaths (possibly to allow use of same sheath for models 1 and 5 without causing questions from customers) was post US withdrawal from Vietnam in 1973. On the other hand, the white stone might be an anomaly in that case. Also the stitching on the butterfly (closely paralleled lines of stitching neatly radiused at top) is distinctive of a certain leather worker ... and I don’t think it appears after about ‘73. I would welcome being corrected if wrong.
Thanks Jacknola for your feedback. I was looking the other day Mitchel's Collection web page and he has a couple of Mid 1960's with the sheath that only have the blade length stamped like this one.

https://www.randallmadeknife.com/071...839l2w5jvg60es

https://www.randallmadeknife.com/new...v50ysu4rxa2j97

As well as a 1970's model again with only the length on it.
So I don't know what to think about the single stamp on the back.

The white sharpening stone I understand that is late 60's, early 70's. Is that correct?

One think I like about this knife is the pronounce angle the handle has compared to the blade. I know that the Model #1 comes with the handle that way, specially the straight handles, but this one is more visible, and more comfortable to my hand.


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  #6  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:18 PM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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You will need to ask Mitchell whether those are original sheaths. Mitchell is quite knowkedgable and one of the top 2-3 leading experts on vintage model 1 knives .. but that doesn’t mean he has not paired up some knives with incompatibly dated sheaths and or stones. Many old knives are now in newer sheaths.

In my experience industrial and craft mass production of any item is rarely done using two or more variants in basic signature details. I consider it unlikely that Johnson stamped some model 1 sheaths with the length number only, while at the same time stamped others with length AND model number. Few if any manufacturers of anything allow their production workers to do things ad hoc in that manner (though Heiser may have done it to some degree).

The recognition of that basic production rule was a key to solving the issue of Heiser/Johnson sheaths with Randall stamps. I suspect those sheaths for Mitchell’s knives are not original to those low S knives.... but I readily concede I have not deeply researched this because I thought the single number stamp came after US Vietnam commitment was essentially over. I only collect knives that could have been carried in Vietnam. I don’t have any with just length number on sheath... but again I am a “collector” with small “c.”.

There are two types of “white” stones and stones are the least reliable marker for dating purpose for obvious reasons. Also even if original, there seems to have been considerable overlap in stone usage. The bear stone I think went from about 1970-73 or so. The other began use in 1968 and continued off and on to about the same time.

Last edited by Jacknola; 10-25-2020 at 08:44 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2020, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknola View Post
You will need to ask Mitchell whether those are original sheaths. Mitchell is quite knowkedgable and one of the top 2-3 leading experts on vintage model 1 knives .. but that doesn’t mean he has not paired up some knives with incompatibly dated sheaths and or stones. Many old knives are now in newer sheaths.

In my experience industrial and craft mass production of any item is rarely done using two or more variants in basic signature details. I consider it unlikely that Johnson stamped some model 1 sheaths with the length number only, while at the same time stamped others with length AND model number. Few if any manufacturers of anything allow their production workers to do things ad hoc in that manner (though Heiser may have done it to some degree).

The recognition of that basic production rule was a key to solving the issue of Heiser/Johnson sheaths with Randall stamps. I suspect those sheaths for Mitchell’s knives are not original to those low S knives.... but I readily concede I have not deeply researched this because I thought the single number stamp came after US Vietnam commitment was essentially over. I only collect knives that could have been carried in Vietnam. I don’t have any with just length number on sheath... but again I am a “collector” with small “c.”.

There are two types of “white” stones and stones are the least reliable marker for dating purpose for obvious reasons. Also even if original, there seems to have been considerable overlap in stone usage. The bear stone I think went from about 1970-73 or so. The other began use in 1968 and continued off and on to about the same time.
Thanks Jacknola for your reply.


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  #8  
Old Today, 08:24 AM
crutchtip crutchtip is offline
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I will chime in on this subject. While most know any of this stuff is not an exact science, with knives and sheaths made in small shops, hand made. So while the theory of standardization in manufacturing (probably the incorrect term in this case) is the goal for consistency of products, I don't think it is wholly applicable in the traditional sense with a hand made product like Randall Knives. That being said, most of the nuances of blade grind, stamps, spacers, handle material, sheaths, and stones, are a guide, not necessarily a definitive in all cases.

There is a problem in the collecting community that still exists, that being matching up, often incorrectly, a knife and sheath that were not original to each other relative to "manufacture" time solely to have a "complete" package. The worse is when a sheath is purposely paired with a knife it doesn't belong with to enhance collector interest and/or the value. I know of one specific case, but I won't go into it here.

Personally, I agree to a certain point with Jack that the model number stamp was used less on Johnson sheaths later in their production years. Not completely, but for the most part. That is not to say though that earlier sheaths from the 60's were made sans model number. I have had numerous examples.

I believe the sheaths in question are original to the knives, an example of what I stated above.

I have in my hand as I write this a Johnson brown button with no model or blade length stamp, along with a late 70's to early 80's Johnson sheath with both model and blade length. There ya go.

Last edited by crutchtip; Today at 08:55 AM.
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1075, a, angle, bee, blade, book, ca, fighter, hand, handle, knife, knives, leather, post, randall, scale, sharpening, sheath, sheaths, show, spacers, stone, vietnam, white


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