Minimum length for hidden tang

[Jerry Shorter]

Having no experience whith hidden tang or rabbited tang blades I figured I'd ask. What's the minimum length for the tang? I'm designing small to medium sized hunters. I want to make them as light as possible but I don't want the handle to break off the first time I use it. In other words I guess I'm looking for the optimum length. Is there a rule of thumb.
Jerry

[mike koller]

2/3's of the handle length , or at least that is what I shoot for.

[m williams]

Most of my handles are rabbitted. I run at least 3/4 length and try to bring it almost to the end. But, I do tend to get paranoid about strength factors. M

[cactusforge]

I try to get all I can, the more the better Gib

[Martyn]

Originally posted by cactusforge
I try to get all I can, the more the better Gib

I know what you mean Gib

[Terry Primos]

I agree. The more, the better. I'm with Mike Williams on this one. For me, it's at least 3/4 of the total handle length, but try to get it almost to the end.

This thread came at a very appropriate time, because I just roughed out and mortised one.



You can see the tang traced on the outside of the roughed out handle. It runs almost to the end. I leave myself a little room for the final shaping of the handle.

By the way, that tang tracing is a little trick I use. When the handle is put on the knife, I can see exactly where to drill my holes.

In my case, I can get away with drilling after assembly because I'm using plain carbon steel (1084 in this case). The tang is fully annealed, which gives super strength and makes it a breeze to drill.

Don't attempt it this way if you are using air-hardening steels, or don't know how to anneal the tang.

####

[ He comes backs and say's ... ]

I just realized that some non-knifemaker folks might see that handle above and think, "God, that's butt-ugly". When the thing is finished out, it will look more-or-less like this:



Okay, I feeel better now.

[Jerry Shorter]

Thanks for the insight guy's. "I see the light". There isn't any such thing as a mimimum length, only a maximum length.

Jerry

[john costa]

Terry, is that a solid piece or scales? I have only used scales and "notched" out each side. I usually glue every thing up at one time including putting it on the tang. Would I be better off gluing the scales and any spacer material first- let dry and then atatch to the tang? btw what is the gaurd material on this knife?
Thanks,
john costa

[Terry Primos]

John,
It's scales. When I have a block, I split it. The way you are doing it is fine. This is just the method I have adopted.

The guard is nickel silver.

[Alain M-D]

Hello Terry !

I like much the style of your knife! Verry interesting knife !
Do you use the same technique for all your hiden tang knife ?

If I understands well, you split your wood block un two part (with bandsaw or tablesaw), you carves each part of the scale to 1/2 thickness of the tang, and you glue the two pieces. Which adhesive you use to glue the two pieces (epoxy?) and what do you use for carve the hole, a chisel? A router? _

Thanks all for your precious informations

Alain M-D
_
_

[Terry Primos]

Alain,
Thank you. Yes, I use this method almost exclusively.

And yes, you understand correctly. Blocks are split if I don't have scales handy. I measure the tang thickness right behind the guard and divide by two. Actually, I add a little to it to allow for for the epoxy.

I use 2-Ton slow set epoxy. I know everyone has their own ideas about the perfect bonding agent, but the 2-Ton stuff serves me well. The epoxy seals and protects the tang and provides a good bond, but pins or bolts are used to provide a secure mechanical bond.

These days I use a milling machine to do the slots, but prior to getting a mini-mill, I used different methods.

Though everyone preaches against it, I used a router bit in the drill press for quite a while. The drill press is about seven years old and still working fine. No damage at all. I didn't hog out the material, but rather dusted away a few thousandths at a time.

Wood chisels are great for it too. I never had any wood chisels, but did use shapened screwdriver as a wood chisel a few times. It worked fine.

The milling machine is the ticket though. I love it.

[Steve]

You make one pretty knife, Terry. Someday........, when I get rich.

What I do is make the tang as long as possible. Then I drill out the block just until the drill comes out the side. Then I get anohter block and try it again. I'm a killer on the wood supply! I like your technique.

Thanks for the info. everyone.

[Alain M-D]

Thanks for the answer Terry!

yes, you understand correctly.

ok, I does not understand always because I do not speak English verry well...

Blocks are split if I don't have scales handy. I measure the tang thickness right behind the guard and divide by two. Actually, I add a little to it to allow for for the epoxy.

With this technique, is it possible to not to see the joint within the two part ?

The epoxy seals and protects the tang and provides a good bond, but pins or bolts are used to provide a secure mechanical bond.

Is this quite solid? There is a danger that the two pieces fall apart? (if the knives fall on a hard surface for example?)

Though everyone preaches against it, I used a router bit in the drill press for quite a while. The drill press is about seven years old and still working fine. No damage at all. I didn't hog out the material, but rather dusted away a few thousandths at a time.

Thanks for the trick... I have a router, but is difficult to work with verry small part like scales... And it is difficult to see well what I do. I will try the drill press !

Alain M-D

[Terry Primos]

Originally stated by Steve Johnson
You make one pretty knife, Terry. Someday........, when I get rich.

Thank you for your kindness Steve. I'm honored.
####

Alain,
You can't completely hide the seam/joint on all materials. The lighter woods like natural Curly Maple tend to show it more. Things like white bone and ivory do too. Here's a top and bottom shot of an ultralight utility knife I did with Thuya Burl. If you look closely you'll see a faint line.





It's actually not a negative thing. When a lot of folks see a faint line, they appreciate the fact that it's a mortised tang. This provides a closer fit than you can get by drilling a hole. It also allows you to have a more substantial tang in both width and length. The main thing is that the line be centered, and not wandering off to one side.

On some of the darker materials, you can really make it invisible.

Yes, it's quite solid and strong. As I said, I use pins or bolts to give an additional "mechanical" bond.

Remember, if you use the drill press, don't hog out the material. Make multiple light passes so that you aren't putting much lateral stress on the chuck of the drill press at all. They are really only made to go up and down, and not to have material shoved in from the side.

[Steve]

Kindness, schmindness! That's a beautiful knife, admit it!

I've liked those mortised tangs ever since I first saw a stag-handled D.E. Henry hunter put together that way, way back int eh 70's. Still a great way to make a knife.