Grizzly Grinders

[NJStricker]

Originally Posted by cdent

Hi Nathan,
Good post. Consider an inexpensive angle grinder with cut off and grinding wheels to profile your blanks and maybe start bevels quite a bit quicker. And, consider picking up good ceramic 36, 50 or 60 grit belts for the 2x42". I'd use the machines to get closer to size before the hand work starts.

Best of luck, Craig

Thanks Craig. I tried angle grinders, and for me about the best use they have for my knife making is cutting the 8 foot length of steel I get from the supplier down to something more manageable. For me, it runs a bit too fast and gets the steel too hot for grinding bevels. The knives I've been making are on the small to medium size--3-4 inch blades, and an angle grinder is just too crude for cutting out blanks for me. It has its place among my tools, but just not for those purposes. I know some have had some success with them, but when I had a disc fly apart on me at a bazillion miles an hour, I decided that wasn't the best tool for that kind of work.

[cdent]

Sorry about that Nathan. I've used the cutting wheel to nip off little flats along the curve of an edge, then do some rough blending after switching over to a grinding wheel. Always firmly clamped and yup, stay out of the line of fire. I've also started bevels by breaking sharp corners with a grinding wheel to make smaller belts last longer. With tool steels before heat treat, I don't think (rookie thinking) this machining will damage the steel, but it will definitely be hot. Can't say I've done too much with stainless. I just thought to comment about using available stuff to do the grunt work, and then saving the hand work for fit and finish. I think your blade size preference is an excellent range for practicing and using, and I'm on the fence about asking the folks over on custom projects if I can get in on the gents edc thing.

Take care, Craig

[blacksmith101]

I feel that the first step to learn is how to make knives. I have made some in the past with nothing more than a 4" side grinder and a torch. Crude, but it gave me great pleasure to create a working knife. The first grinder I bought was a used second hand 2-72 that someone had discarded to upgrade to a better quality one. It tought me patience and perserverance. I have upgraded to a KMG but passed the cheap one on to another budding maker. Pleasure involved in both ways, once in getting it to use and once to get rid of it after I had saved enough money for a KMG. Use what you have and hope for better things in the future. Its the human way. If we wait for good things we tend to take care of them after we get them. Merle

[NJStricker]

Originally Posted by cdent

Sorry about that Nathan. I've used the cutting wheel to nip off little flats along the curve of an edge, then do some rough blending after switching over to a grinding wheel. Always firmly clamped and yup, stay out of the line of fire. I've also started bevels by breaking sharp corners with a grinding wheel to make smaller belts last longer. With tool steels before heat treat, I don't think (rookie thinking) this machining will damage the steel, but it will definitely be hot. Can't say I've done too much with stainless. I just thought to comment about using available stuff to do the grunt work, and then saving the hand work for fit and finish. I think your blade size preference is an excellent range for practicing and using, and I'm on the fence about asking the folks over on custom projects if I can get in on the gents edc thing.

Take care, Craig

Craig--no problem at all. It just didn't work in my experience, for me. The particular cut-off wheel that flew apart on me, after looking at it, likely had hairline cracks in it. It flew apart in spite of the fiber reinforcement, which was kind of scary. I always make sure I wear a full face mask and hearing protection when using the thing, and having a chunk bounce off the guard and fly by your face is no fun.

When using the cut-off wheel I've gotten the steel to blue heat and turn brittle on me, so I use the angle grinder sparingly.

I thought of joining up on the gents EDC also, but also haven't decided whether to do it or not.

[AUBE]

Originally Posted by Armory414

Here's a comment I'll throw in as a newb.
I drill holes around the outline of my knife and then play connect the dots with a Dremel and cut-off wheels on the barstock. Then I finish the profile with files. It takes me 4-6 hours to get a blank out of bar stock, working at it 30 minutes at a time here and there. Yes, I know I need to invest in a band saw. But that's another expense that's a detour to getting a better grinder.

Nathan

Hi Nathan,
I'm not trying to critique your process but I was wondering which portion of the profiling is eating up most of your time? I own a bandsaw but sometime when a blade needs to be replaced I drill the profile out instead of going to the store. Profiling only takes me up to 30mins each....usually less. What I do is drill the holes with a 1/4" drill bit as close as I can then put in a 5/16-3/8" drill and bore the holes larger which often connects the holes or gets the webbing really close then I take a hammer with a cold chisel and go through the leftover. I then profile the rest using the edge of my sanding belt. The only area I use the Dremel on is if I need to use the drum sander for finger grooves. Again I'm not trying to critique your method, I'm just hoping to maybe save you some time...

[NJStricker]

AUBE,

I don't have a band saw, so I use the drill press also. I'll have to try the cold chisel. I use 3/32" or 1/8" drill bits to drill the outline. The smaller bits seem to go through the steel easier than the larger ones. I use the slowest speed setting on my drill press. The most time consuming part for getting the blank is drilling the holes. I'm actually quite fast now with a 12 inch mill bastard file!

Nathan

[AUBE]

With a good drill bit, good cutting fluid (I like Cool Tool) and the right speed those 1/4" drills should zip through fairly quick....and since they are twice as wide as 1/8" you have half as many holes to drill. (of course you will have more wasted material) I haven't timed myself but I would guesstimate I am drilling through 3/16" thick 1095 with a 1/4" drill in under 20seconds per hole. So about 1 1/2 minutes per inch.

Have you tried a higher speed (I'm not sure what speed I am using..its a variable speed model) with a few drops of cutting fluid to see if it does better for you? Is the added torque from using a larger drill making your bit spin in the chuck more? That can slow down drilling and create heat. Also I have seen the belts be a bit too loose on the pulley system and slip with larger bits causing inefficient cutting.

I recently broke my last 1/4" drill bit and since the tool store was closed I went to Walmart and picked up a Black And Decker drill advertised to "cut 47% faster" for like $3. It actually works pretty good. I profiled about 30-40 simple design knives(took less than 3 hours) with it and its still cutting fine. It has a triangle beveled end to fit in the chuck so there is no way it can slip.

I'm also using a minimill which is a bit more rigid and I think it cuts slightly faster than the drill presses I used to use....but you should still be able to get that profiling speed up with the right combo.

-Jason
(sorry for getting off topic guys)

[jjh]

Can I ask why people gang drill instead of using a thin slitting dics in an angle grinder?

[Ray Rogers]

Look a few posts back and you'll see the reasons. Sometimes the disks can shatter which could be dangerous, they generate a lot of heat which could damage some steels, and they are very noisy. Some makers compromise and use the disk to connect the dots after the gang drilling is done.

That doesn't stop some people from profiling or grinding blades that way but you asked and those reasons would be at the top of the list I think.....

[jjh]

I guess I'm more concerned with speed and removing as much metal before hitting the belt grinder to save on belts

[NJStricker]

That's why I use files. I occasionally use a grinding stone on an arbor, but you can really screw up a blade quickly that way.

[Sureshot]

Ok, I'm a knives edge from buying a KMG. I'm wondering now what motors you all reccomend. I'd kinda like to go with a Baldor cause I know there good. But what HP ect...ect..? Also, is there anything in particular I'd need to look for on the body of the motor in order to mount it up properly.

[NJStricker]

The person who can give you the best advice is probably Rob Frink himself at Beaumont Metal Works. He can give you the scoop on the different motor options, and what works for variable speed controllers or step pulleys.

[cdent]

Hi Sureshot,
Take a look at TEFC style motors. I think 1 1/2 hp on the low side, and also if you need to plug into 110v. 5/8" shaft is a common size that's easy to get step pulleys for. Or put together a 2 hp VS set up like Rob shows on his site.

Good luck, Craig

[Taz575]

I have had a grizzly for several years now, haven't used it in a while. It was what I could afford at the time, and it worked ok. Like the others mentioned, the tracking wasn't the greatest and the platen wasn't that great for flat grinding. I did a lot of hand finishing on the knives, but before I stopped due to work, I got pretty decent with it. I still have my original 1x30, works nice for touching up a badly chipped edge, etc.

The grizzly works great for hogging the profiles of knives, if I could only find that tool rest attachment again! (dunno where it went) I had a blast setting my work bench on fire numerous times from the metal shavings heating up and making the wooden platform it is on smolder. High speed, 36 grit ceramic belts, I hogged and rough ground 17 blades in a 7 hour period once! Not that they were that great or anything, but you can accomplish a lot of rough grinding with it. Pretty fun working Titanium as well, white sparks popping all around!!!! To get a small wheel, I simply took old belts and taped them to the buffer arm. Much easier than drill press mounted sanding drums or a Dremel.

I still have steel leftover, as well as belts, micarta, etc. I did a few kits, and did the work by hand, files, sandpaper, etc. I had a lot of fun doing them, would have been much quicker with the belt sander, but I had more fun playing and shaping with the hand tools. I am currently working on a S30V knife with files, have the blade around halfway done for the bevels. Man, I wish I was using the grizzly for that! The grizzly has its place, especially for learning, but it is also great as a roughing machine. I would love to get a KMG, but working Midnight shift, I don't have much time where I am awake anymore!

You could probably also power the KMG off of the buffer arm of the grizz, using step pulleys for the variable speed. I was considering this route, but just don't have much time anymore, but that may change when I stop coaching. When I think about it, $2000 isn't that much when I realize I put over that much into a 1911 I worked up!! Knives and guns are way too addicting! Plus you can make some $$$ off of the knifemaking, where my custom gun doesn't make too much money sitting in my safe!