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The Folding Knife (& Switchblade) Forum The materials, techniques and the designing of folding knives.

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  #1  
Old 09-22-2004, 07:32 AM
Ed Barker Ed Barker is offline
 
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Jeweler's Saws

I wore out two jeweler's saws last night cutting a 0.04" liner out of 6AL4V Ti. What was most interesting was that I had just done this proceedure for the first time using Ti last week on a slightly thicker Ti liner with no problemo's. I made sure to use a fairly low speed so as to not get the heat up too much....but I believe it got hotter and hotter to match my frustration as the operation went down-hill! Essentially I did not make much of a cut, the teeth dulled on the saw, and the friction drove up the heat.

I've read a few of the previous posts and a lot of folks seem to recommend using abrasive "dremel-type" cut-off wheels in thier drill press or mill as opposed to a jeweler's saw. However, others seem to have great success with saws and are using the same one for years and years. I was using a 3" diameter, 0.02" thick HSS jeweler's saw w/ 310 teeth (Enco #370-3850) and everything was set-up smooth and flat and the liner was held securely in my vise. Does anyone have any idea if there is a better saw to utilize (thickness, # teeth, material, slitting vs. jeweler's saw)? Also, does Ti tend to harden with excessive heat like carbon steel such that you start working against yourself when this type of situation occurs? I'm certainly going to try the abrasive cut-off method but I didn't want to throw the towell in just yet on the jeweler's saw (I bought a three pack!).

Thanks my friends!
Ed Barker
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Old 09-22-2004, 08:33 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Ti will work harden enough to dull a saw. I use a 1.25" cobalt slittling saw with 82 teeth running at 800 rpms. I slotted two .062 liners with a fresh saw yesterday in less than half an hour (includes set up time).

You don't say how your saw is set up ( a mill, drill press, Dremel?). A critical part of making a slotting saw or jeweler's saw survive long enough to cut a Ti liner is using a coolant. I use a mist sprayer to continually cool the Ti while the saw is in contact with it. Without that, I might be lucky enough to cut one liner but unlikely I would cut a second one. With the coolant, the same saw can be used many times....


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Old 09-22-2004, 01:49 PM
Ed Barker Ed Barker is offline
 
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Ray:
I used a saw arbor in my mill/drill and manually use a little tap ease and wd40 periodically during the operation. Sounds like I may have work hardened the Ti although I really tried to use low rpm.

Ed
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:33 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I work hardened a Ti liner once. In my case, the heat was enough to discolor the Ti in a small spot about the size of a BB. No problem, I thought....I'll just put in a fresh cobalt saw and cut through it. Well, it required FOUR new cobalt saws to cut through that tiny spot! That $40 lesson taught me to change the saw as soon as I see they will no longer cut Ti like butter even though they aren't really dull AND to flood the heck out of the liner while cutting is in progress....


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Old 09-22-2004, 10:39 PM
doublearrow doublearrow is offline
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not to steal the thread but..

I was using the reinforced dremel cut off wheels and got it pretty warm in some places, my question am I going to be able to drill through them? I'd try for myself if I had the drill bits already, the order went out yesterday. In the mean time if ya'll think I have hardened it beyond drilling i'll cut another piece. Thanks in advance.


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Old 09-23-2004, 08:27 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Depends on how hard it got and what kind of drill bits you'll be using. Carbide spade bits and Hi-Roc bits will drill through most anything. At a guess, I'd say you'll be OK with whatever bits you have since it's hard to imagine that you will have to drill very near where you were cutting with the wheel. The area that hardened (if it did) shouldn't be all that wide....


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Old 09-23-2004, 09:57 PM
doublearrow doublearrow is offline
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thank ya sir

Thanks for the help. I'm building the knife off of the tutorial you posted, but I have to do it between fixed blade orders for Christmas so it's goin slow. Seems like everytime I'm gonna get time to sail on a folder somethin gets in the way.


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Old 09-23-2004, 11:30 PM
Ed Barker Ed Barker is offline
 
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I chucked up a dremel cut-off wheel in my mill/drill and cut out the hardened Ti lock in no time. I then cut another lock out of a different Ti liner with a HSS jeweler's saw to try it again and I had no trouble when taking it very, very slow. I think I must have had the RPM higher than I thought the first time. Anyone know what the boiling point is for WD-40 ?

Thanks for your assistance Ray.

Ed Barker
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Old 09-24-2004, 06:44 AM
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Jeff Higgins Jeff Higgins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Barker
I chucked up a dremel cut-off wheel in my mill/drill and cut out the hardened Ti lock in no time. I then cut another lock out of a different Ti liner with a HSS jeweler's saw to try it again and I had no trouble when taking it very, very slow. I think I must have had the RPM higher than I thought the first time. Anyone know what the boiling point is for WD-40 ?

Thanks for your assistance Ray.

Ed Barker
Hey Ed, I think the flash point for WD-40 is only slightly higher that mineral spirits, or about 120 degrees.


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Old 09-24-2004, 08:39 AM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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WD40 flashpoint: 131F

MSDS:

http://www.wd40.com/Brands/msds_usa.html

Last edited by fitzo; 09-24-2004 at 08:42 AM.
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  #11  
Old 09-24-2004, 09:27 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Doublearrow,

Be sure to let us see a picture of that folder when you get it finished.

Ed,

If you have an air compressor the you should add a mister to your setup. A 1 gallon Wesco mister from MSC costs about $50 . Then you can cool your parts continually while cutting with something cheaper and less messy than WD-40 and that can't burn. You'll be able to cut a little faster this way .....


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Old 09-27-2004, 12:14 PM
R. D. Finch R. D. Finch is offline
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How Does everbody cut out the liner's when making their knife? I having be gringing mine out and never that about it harding.


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Old 09-28-2004, 10:05 AM
plain ol Bill plain ol Bill is offline
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Cut out w/ bandsaw close to scribed line - put 50 grit hogger on grinder and grind to line - after assembly grind liners and back bar to final with 220 then 400 then hand sand and polish.


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