What is a Bowie knife?

[Big Ugly Gringo]

I POSTED THIS SEVERAL DAYS AGO ON THE KNIFE NETWORK COMMUNITY FORUM, BUT FIGURED SOME OF YOU GUYS MIGHT NOT GET OVER THERE AND MIGHT BE INTERESTED... OR NOT.

Many of you will already know this stuff. Others won't. But I've been thinking about Bowie knives virtually every waking moment of the last month and feel like writing about them. This posting is being shared with two forums in case you run across it somewhere else. I started to put links in here, but decided against it. Anyone who wants to search the net should be able to figure out what search words to use.

Before I start, let me say I am no expert on knives or Bowie knives. Let me also say I know much more about them now than I did in January when I started doing research for a purchase.

The latest Alamo movie "flung a cravin" on me for a Bowie knife and I decided to give one to myself as a late Christmas present and birthday present. I started doing research on the net and quickly learned how much I didn't know. But I developed some pretty firm opinions about what is or is NOT a Bowie knife.

To me, the definition of "Bowie knife" depends on whether you are a collector of historic knives or just a fan/user of the blades.

I am not a collector and in the course of trying to learn about Bowie knives I managed to piss all over the corn flakes of man who is a guaranteed authority on collecting and identifying historic knives.

My impression is that to a collector, the design of the knife doesn't matter one whit. What matters is a verifiable connection to Rezin Bowie, James Bowie, or one of the known early to mid 19th Century knifesmiths who made Bowies... and there is even argument of who belongs on that list.

When I made my purchase, I decided to go with a knife that matched my lifelong concept of what a Bowie knife should look like... except it's stainless steel and not Damascus or carbon. I have sent a money order and this knife, or one that looks a lot like it,

will be on the way to El Paso in short order. It is a Bear MGC with Indian stag bone grips.

I guess it is a clue to my nature that I wound up buying the same type of knife I would have bought if I had of never done any research. But let me lead you through the path I followed to get back to where I started. And also allow me to define what this complete layman on the subject has come to believe is or is not a Bowie knife. And my NOT list includes knives that have been definitely linked to Rezin Bowie and/or Jim.

The Bowie knife began life on the Bowie plantation in Aytolles Parish, Louisiana, in the mid to late 1820s. It was designed by Rezin Bowie and made by a hired blacksmith named Jesse Cleft, working with an old file. It also, in my opinion was NOT a Bowie knife, although it was a knife designed by Rezin and used by Jim. The more infamous brother borrowed the knife and used it in the equally infamous Sandbar Fight.

Some people believe that this knife,

the Edwin Forrest Bowie, is that same knife. Other experts say it is definitely a knife from that same era but cannot be proven to be the same knife. As you can see, it looks more like a large butcher knife (exactly teh description of the knife Jim Bowie used in the Sandbar Fight) than the multi-purpose/fighting knife you think of as a Bowie.

To me, the next step in the evolution of the Bowie knife came at the hands of a silversmith/knifesmith/blacksmith named James Black in Washington County, Arkansas. The story told about that event and the one that I believe, is that Jim Bowie (or maybe Rezin) asked Black to build a knife based on a design by Rezin.

.Supposedly, Black created two knives. One had the same design as the first Rezin knife but with a coffin-shaped handle, and was the design presented to him. The second, of Black's design, had a "false edge" or "trailing edge" on the top of the tip. That clip point was also sharpened, allowing the knife to be used in a slashing motion to make cuts in either direction. It looked something like this:


Again, while it is closer to being what I consider a Bowie knife, it was not a Bowie, any more than I am my grandfather. Getting warmer, but not there yet.

The next generation gets into what I consider to be a true Bowie knife. Again, collectors and historians absolutely will not agree with me, but pure users like myself might well see my point. I won't go into the number of different knives that match my basic idea of a Bowie knife - large blade (minimum 6 inches and some are more than 14 inches) with that clip point/false edge sharpened, a substantial crossguard, either straight or curved and preferable brass, and a symmetrical grip, either coffin shaped or straight. The grip shape allows the knife to be used with the main edge either up or down.

To keep this thing from being just TOOO long, I'll cut to the chase and get to the knife that is one of the most controversial if not THE most controversial. That renowned expert I mentioned calls it a complate fake and a POS. I say I don't know if it is real or not, but it is ####e sure an interesting looking knife. Some accounts I have read say tests done on the metal have linked the knife to Washington County, Arkansas, (back to James Black?) and dated it to around 1830. That collector/historian says it was made in the 1970s. Again, I say, I don't care. This knife supremely matches my definition of a Bowie knife.

The blade, of course, is the "brass-backed Bowie" or Musso Bowie, named for its owner, California movie illustrator/historian/Bowie collector Joseph Musso. The first time I saw a photo of a replica of the Musso Bowie, it made my heart feel warm. it perfectly fits my idea of what a Bowie knife should be. At the time, I did not know about the Musso Bowie. The knife I saw, sold by Atlanta Cutlery, is termed the "primitive" Bowie and is a bit shorter than the Musso. The Atlanta Cutlery knife looks like this:



Here is a photo of the Real Musso Bowie:



The knife looks like the kind of knife someone with Jim Bowie's rep would carry. It looks like an all business, multi-purpose knife meant primarily for self-defense. As I have seen it explained, the strip of brass on the back of the blade is designed to catch the blade of an opponent's knife, allowing you to disarm him. The guard is also brass for the same purpose. The softer metal can catch the steel of an opponent's blade. The S shape has a purpose, the top curve deflects blades away from you while the bottom curve protects your hand. Looks good, works better.

To me, this knife, regardless of where or when it was made, is a Bowie knife. The only reason I didn't buy a Primitive Bowie before I bought the Bear MGC was that I read several negative comments about the workmanship of the knife and the fact that it is made for display. The blades are shipped dull unless you ask Atlanta Cutlery to sharpen for you. As I learned when I recently e-mailed them, the company WILL NOT sharpen both the main blade and the false edge because of postal regulations. A primitive bowie from Atlanta Cutlery (which can be shipped to my front door for about 100 bucks) will be my next Bowie knife purchase.

So there it is folks, my idea of what a Bowie knife is or isn't. I am sure there are people who have the boney fideys to show they are Bowie experts who will disagree strongly with much, if not ALL of what I have just presented. But that doesn't matter to me. I am not a collector nor historian. I am simply an overpaid old ex-reporter, ex-cop, current Federal LEO who has a small amount of cash to support a hobby or two. Bowies are my latest hobby.

[hammerdownnow]

I never tire of running off at the head about boies and my own sometimes crazy theories. some folks don't like to surmize or suppose or dream or guess. I however, have no problem with it.

What is a Bowie knife? To me, because of the way the idea of "A Knife Like Bowie's" came about with just a discription and no image of how it should look, it leaves that ideal up to individual interpetation. It is what ever you see in your minds eye as the most wicked fighter you could imagine. A defence weapon that you could hold between you and an attacker that would or could insure your survival. In essence it is a knife of fantasy. A fantasy each of us can have and hold. It is ours personally and individually.

The most widely held view of what a bowie should look like held today is the Sheffield style clip point. Why? Probably from all the antique examples available to see today and from old movies like The Iron Mistress, Davey Crocket, and The Alamo. Like the first time you felt attaction for the opposite sex, those features that you saw as attractive in them in them, stay with you and infuence the way you perceive beauty.

The same can be said about our attration to the things we fear. The boogie man and what he may have up his sleeve could effect the way we see our ultimate defence weapon. If it scares us, it could be turned on others to strike fear in them. They say the Viking seax was a very feared weapon in its day in Europe. When news of the bowie reached England could they have been picturing the seax as their idea of a Big scary knife? Thus incorporating the clip into the design?
Shark tooth Bowie Saex by Andrew Jordan

[Big Ugly Gringo]

To Paraphrase Will Rogers... I never met a Bowie I didn't like. There sure are a lot of beautiful examples of the Bowie out there and the image you posted is definitely one of them.

[tomthbomb]

Originally Posted by Big Ugly Gringo

The Bowie knife began life on the Bowie plantation in Aytolles Parish, Louisiana, in the mid to late 1820s. It was designed by Rezin Bowie and made by a hired blacksmith named Jesse Cleft, working with an old file. It also, in my opinion was NOT a Bowie knife.

There may be some spinning going on in this grave.

[Big Ugly Gringo]

I doubt if anyone, living or dead, cares that much about my opinion of Bowie knives. And where in Deep East Texas do you live? I'm from Panola and Harrison counties and went to college in Nacogdoches.

[hammerdownnow]

You da' bomb Tom. Thanks for that image.