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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 05-28-2010, 11:33 AM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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D2, just one more time

I am and always have been a D2 fan. However, I am running into conflicting information on heat treatment, specifically the temper of D2. One pro, who I respect, says to temper at 968 while others range down to 400. Anyone have the best heat treat formula for a working blade in D2?
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:24 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Jim Hrisoulas in his "Master Bladesmith" lists the tempering temperatures for D2 at 400-1000 degrees with a range of HRc hardness from 61-54. Your pro might want a softer blade or there may be some other factors in play here but if 99 people all agree that things should be done one way and one person says another that one person could be correct but chances are slim.

Doug Lester


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Old 05-29-2010, 04:44 AM
Gabe Newell Gabe Newell is offline
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D2 has a secondary hardening bump.

610 is Carpenter's name for AISI D2.



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Old 05-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Looks like some other factors were in play. My question would be that if you can achieve the same result at 400-450 in the kitchen stove or toaster oven why would one want to invest in a purpose made heat treating oven, or outsourcing the heat treatment, to do it at 900-1000 degrees? Is there some advantage that doesn't appear on the heat treating chart?

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Old 05-29-2010, 07:11 PM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
Looks like some other factors were in play. My question would be that if you can achieve the same result at 400-450 in the kitchen stove or toaster oven why would one want to invest in a purpose made heat treating oven, or outsourcing the heat treatment, to do it at 900-1000 degrees? Is there some advantage that doesn't appear on the heat treating chart?

Doug Lester
is there some misunderstanding about HT here? The subject is about tempering, not hardening.

You can't do the hardening (austenitizing) in an oven. D2 is air hardening and should be austenitized in a neutral atmosphere furnace. The way most of us do that is to wrap the blade in stainless foil to provide the neutral atmosphere. This requires a furnace. D2 can't normally be heat treated with a torch or open forge because it needs to be soaked at the austenizing temp. for at least several minutes. That requires accurate temperature control and control of the scale, such as provided by an electric furnace.

Tempering doesn't usually require atmosphere control and can be usually accomplished in anything that can hold a certain temp. for the required soak time.

Excuse me if I've misunderstood your question.

Last edited by Don Robinson; 05-29-2010 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:15 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Don, I think the original question was about tempering not austinization and quenching and my question in my second responce was still in reference to that. That is, if one could temper at 400-450 degrees why would one try to do the same thing at 900-1000, as per the chart supplied by Gabe, unless there was some other advantage. However, the information that you supplied on D2 tends to confirm my belief that D2 is not a steel for the "average" knifesmith but for someone who has the more refined equiptment to heat treat it or is willing to send it out to someone who does.

Doug Lester


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Old 05-30-2010, 08:08 AM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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OK, Doug.

Yes, air hardening requires some equipment or sending it out.

Now, IIRC, the higher tempering temp. does two things: 1. It enhances the ability of the steel to resist rusting, as in the case of a knife used around salt water, etc., and

2, it is a "save" in case for some reason the original low temp. temper temperature has been exceeded, such as accidentally in a furnace, or maybe the tip was overheated when the knife was finish ground after tempering. In that case, it can be re-tempered at the higher hardness and regain the original Rc working hardness.

IIRC, The low temp. tempering range gives a little more edge holding ability.

I may be wrong about this, as I said it's coming from memory a long time ago. I haven't checked a reference. I don't use D2 unless a customer insists on it.

I just finished two large fixed blade knives using some left over CPM D2 just to get rid of it. It's nearly impossible to get a nice finish on it.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:49 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Thanks for the info Don. With D2 , one, being harder to forge than simpler steels and, two, being much more demanding to heat treat, I don't think that I will be working with it anytime soon. If I ever get to the place that I take orders for knives and a customer wants a blade of D2, I think I'll just send them to a smith that works with it. Right now I'm happy with 9260 and 52100.

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Old 06-01-2010, 08:07 AM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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Yeah, maybe for forging you would use other than D2, but I broke out long ago with a guy who used D2 pretty much exclusively. Jimmy Lile as a matter of fact and I consider it a fine steel for custom knives
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