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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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Old 01-22-2013, 10:48 PM
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Different Guard Materials

I was wondering Ed ,what you and everyone else think about different guard materials like g10 for a guard? Would it hold up?

I really like the black carbon fiber guards that Mr. Doyle uses.

Thoughts?

Brian
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:08 PM
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I have used black linen micarta before and it holds up just fine. I did a test for some fighters a long time ago and it was very difficult to chop through the micarta with a knife blade. So it should do just fine with normal use.


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Old 01-22-2013, 11:12 PM
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Thats good to know. Is there a reason nickel silver, brass, and stainless are predominantly used?
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:15 PM
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Easily worked and relatively inexpensive. Bronze is also a good choice. Then you get into wrought iron, mild steel, damascus etc.


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Old 01-22-2013, 11:19 PM
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Thanks! I have been thinking about expanding on my g10 concept. I just dont' like the look of the layering.


Last edited by TheWeatherman; 01-22-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:27 AM
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Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with using whatever guard material YOU like.....the caveat to that is that if your selling knives, YOUR customers must like it too.

I tend to go with whatever material I think will compliment the particular knife I'm working on. In my whole career I've only made 3 knives with other then metallic guard material....and those were G10, at the customer's request.

As for how they hold up....it's all in the design. I found that a G10 guard needs to ground in such a way that the lower portion is more "beefy" then I would make a similar metallic guard.


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Old 01-23-2013, 03:05 PM
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Hi Ed, At one point we were talking thinking smart about test knives and about fitting and guards being able to polished nice. Is 416ss a good guard material for test knives?
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:59 AM
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Hi Brian!

I agree with Ed on the thickness of the guard at the bottom. Ive used both micarta and g10 and they both work just fine.

BTW, nice looking knife, buddy!

Dana
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:01 PM
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Thanks Dana!
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:47 PM
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Hi Brian. I also agree with Ed and Dana about the thickness. G-10, on paper, should be as strong as steel, strand for strand. Or making sure we're comparing apples to apples. Micarta is considerably weaker, especially the paper micarta. The paper variety is pure jet black with no grain.................but I have snapped the tip off a thin guard trying to put it in the sheath.

I've never broken a g-10 guard and don't ever expect to.

On the knife above that you made, I would have flipped the guard stock 90 degrees so that the layering would run the other way. You wouldn't see the rings in the guard then. And I would make sure it's polished to at least 800 grit. 1000 would be even better.

By the way, I am starting to MUCH prefer black g-10 over carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is much nastier to work, much harder on tooling and much more expensive. It also always has little pits and voids in it that need to be filled with CA glue. The edges of those pits and voids are very brittle and will flake off if they catch on something.

In real world use, I doubt anyone could ever tell a strength difference in carbon fiber and black g-10. Bottom line is, I doubt I will ever use carbon fiber for anything.........ever again.


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Old 01-24-2013, 12:53 PM
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J. Doyle: Thanks for the suggestions. When looking at the block and the material how would I tell which way the material should be facing. This is a frame construction with the guard being 3 pieces not one so I just cut the material and used it like scales. And I couldn't see the lines until I started to finish it.

The whole handle was finished to 1500 grit. But the rings are what make me disappointed by the guard.

Just so that I understand the guard needs to be "beefed" than a metal guard, meaning that the guard that I did was not to bad?
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:02 PM
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I see what you did now. I would have made the guard out of one solid piece of g-10 and just cut a slot through it. If you had cut a slice out of a scale that was 3/8" thick or so, that would have put the layering on the face and underside of the guard and the tightly packed layers on the sides. So you wouldn't see the rings that way.

Your guard looks pretty good. Using g-10, I personally wouldn't be afraid to go even a little bit thinner than that. But it looks okay to me.


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Old 01-24-2013, 01:11 PM
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See I have been having problems with traditional guards so I tried my hand at frame knives to get a similar look.

And I have been contemplating using g10 as a guard material, but I have been hesitant because I only sell knives so I can make more. Its fun to make them but I don't need knives laying around taking up space.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:01 PM
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Ed, Dana, J.Doyle. What do you think an appropriate length for shoulders on each side of the knife is? You get them to long and they you have a really thin stick, to small and not enough area?

Thoughts?
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:03 PM
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I wouldn't make your shoulders any longer than you have to. But you also want enough that you can file your guard and not cut into your slot.

On hunters, if my ricasso height was 7/8" or 15/16" my shoulders are usually a little less than 1/8" long. Maybe 3/32" or so.

To me, not having sharp square corners in the shoulders and having a soft(er) tang/ricasso area is more important than the actual thickness of the tang. Using a knife like a knife, you will never have any issues breaking that tang there.

Just my two cents on that.


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