Non-ferrous quench tank???

[bkitchen]

I was talking with a long time knife maker today Jim Rubley and he told me to never quench in a ferrous quench tank. Has anyone ever heard of this?? He says it messes with the magnetic field. He uses an old copper boiler for his tank. He also uses a compass every day to find true north to quench at. I have heard of this but he says that magnetic north changes all the time so you should check frequently.

[MaxTheKnife]

Well, I don't know about all that but I use an aluminum electric skillet to edge quench in. And I always quench my blades due south because that's how my shop is set up. It makes sense to orient your blade with the north/south poles and not quench to the east or west. But that's for an edge quench. What direction is your blade pointing when you quench it point first? Things that make you say hmmmm.....

Then again, now that I think about it, why wouldn't it make sense to quench in alignment with the rotation of the earth? There's all kinds of things that we do without considering the reason why. Lots of it is just natural intuition in my opinion. It also has alot to do with what we learn as we're growing up and what we learn on a daily basis after we're grown. For years I wouldn't eat a rabbit until after the first frost. I'd heard all my life that you'll get rabbit fever if you do. That's an old wives tale and has no basis of fact. The real truth is that you should always look at the rabbit's liver to see if it's in good health before you eat it. If the liver has yeller spots on it you should pass it up and wash your hands real good afterward.

Which direction should you quench in and what kind of quench tank should you use? Whatever works for you old buddy. If you firmly believe in your methods, then I firmly believe they'll work for you. So is Jim Rubley right? You bet he is!

I always use a non ferrous quench tank and quench with the blade facing north.

[Davis]

I had 3 failed heat treats before I quenched due north --thanks Tai-- but I use a big (14x14'') glass block for my quench tank. Heavy as sin but easy to move.

Trish

[neo733c]

Magnetic north doesn't change more than a couple degrees in a year but theres probably enough metal stuff in the average shop that magnetic north according to the compass could change drastically every day if he was say a little closer to his anvil or if knife was a little to close to the compass from one day to the next.

[bkitchen]

So it does make a difference huh. I will have to find a different tank and give it a try. He was very meticulous about how he quenched, said it makes all the difference in the world. Also said nothing but real Quenching oil should be used!! Any ideas on this??

[MongoForge]

I guess Quenchants can be debated??

I know people who only use Vegetable oil
and there knives would
stand up against anyone's...

But from what ive seen and been
taught, the commercial stuff
is good too

It's all Good :cool:

[EMU]

I have trouble believing that anyone holds the blade in PERFECT alignment when they quench. And it is right to believe that metal objects around the shop and even in your pocket have some influence on the compass reading. I'm all for doing things to make the work better but I think sometimes we get carried away with some of the things we do. The non-ferrous tank makes sense but wouldn't the ferrous tank sort of cancel the effects of the polar magnetism? I liked the north/south alignment of the tank when I saw it in the Hoods Woods video. Been doing it that way ever since. I just figured that "it couldn't hurt" so that was how I set it up. So far "it hasn't hurt".
I really like all the ideas that folks come up with. Some of them are obvious and some of them make me THINK about what I'm doing. Always lots of good information here.
Has anybody looked into whether there are any spiritual rituals....

Thanks for making me think... does anybody have any aspirin?

[Sweany]

well I use an old water heater tank and it's round, so no way to orient it to the North. Maybe that's why it works.

I have seen quench tanks made outta wood. I reckon if I didn't have a suitable container a wood box would do.

Real quenching oil. Like maybe Texaco A? Is a mineral oil with additives to make it quench at a certain speed.

They make a faster oil and slower oil. I use half hydraulic and half transmission fluid. The transmission fkuid has additives in it to didipate heat.

I don't notice a lot of difference between that and veggie oil, that I've been using for the last several years except for the smell.

If your method works it works.

my .02

[hammerdownnow]

Hey Sweany, thought you gave up useing wood. Something about a flaiming pickup goin down the highway?

If you believe it will help, it will.

If you don't believe it will help, then for you, it won't help.

EMU, it's all a spiritual ritual.

[Dana Acker]

I have used a stainless steel pan with vegetable oil for most of ten years and had excellent results. Before that I used an old sheet metal pan (which was probably ferrous) with transmission fluid. The main difference was the smell, and the tranny fluid flashed quicker. I never have heard that a non-ferrous pan makes any difference in the quench.

One thing I have learned over my time in the craft is that if you line up a hundred smiths and ask them how they do something, you will get a hundred different ways of doing the same thing--and they're all right. I think it boils down to a case of what Mike and Tai were getting at, if it works for you...works.

Be careful of people who make absolute laws when it comes to smithing techniques.

It might have something to do with "orgone" and "morphic fields".

http://www.orgone.org/articles/ax9rourke-a.htm

http://www.intuition.org/txt/sheldra1.htm

[Chuck Burrows]

Tai-
Here's a site you should find interesting - the magnetism concepts are very interesting. Alex Chiu

Be careful of people who make absolute laws when it comes to smithing techniques.

And it ain't just smithing techniques - I'd be so bold to say that it's anything - even life in general. When ever I offer advice on leather smithing I always add the caveat to experiment and use the methodology that works best for you even if it goes against the grain of the "experts". Note that Tai and many other masters are always experimenting - it's the only way to grow.