Wax Problem

[GLDOYLE]

MY SHEATHS ARE LEAVING WAX STREAKS ON MY KNIFE BLADES
WHEN PLACED INTO THE SHEATH. I HEAT SHEATHS TO 170/180
DEGREES IN A HOT BOX FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES THEN DIP IN
WAX/BEESWAX/MINK OIL MIXTURE , SHAKE OFF EXCESS THEN
PLACE BACK IN HOT BOX UPSIDE DOWN TO DRAIN OFF ANY EXCESS .WHAT IS GOING WRONG? COULD IT BE TOO MUCH
WAX IN MY MIXTURE OR IS IT JUST NOT THE BEST WAY TO TREAT LEATHER? ANY SUGGESTIONS OR COMMENTS WOULD BE GREATLY
APPRECIATED.
THANKS ,
LARRY

[Chuck Burrows]

Larry-
I know some sheathmakers swear by this method but I don't like it and I know of no professional leather smith in any other genre who uses it (that includes lots of holster makers, saddle makers and more.)

Here is how I finish my sheaths:
1) I finish off the INSIDE of the sheath first. If you're going to dye do it and let it dry thoroughly. I then put a couple of coats of Fiebings Leather Balm w/Atom wax and let dry. After it's thoroughly dry take a piece of antler or some such and rub the inner area until it's smooth. I then seal it. Over the years I have experimented with several different methods of sealing including using thin satin varathane, thinned spar varnish, and Watco Danish oil. Recently with some new leather I have had a bit of bleed through especially with some thinner leather. So I went back to using carnuba cream (available from Tandy or Leather factory). I put on 3 or 4 thin coats, making sure each coat is dry before adding a new one. Unlike paraffin/beeswax the carnuba cream dries to a HARD, but not stiff finish that almost completely stops water and/or oil penetration. Carnuba wax is what is used in car wax and you can see what a great barrier that it makes against moisture. I learned the trick of using it years ago when I did a lot of motorcycle riding and an old timer recommended it for my saddlebags and chaps. Bug snot and road grime just wiped off with a damp rag.
2) To finish off the outside I have various methods, but if I want to get an oil type finish I use Montana Pitchblend ( www.mtpitchblend.com ), which is a mixture of mink oil, pine resin, and beeswax. Follow there instructions which is to WARM the leather (a hair dryer works great) and rub it in. Use the hairdryer again and wipe off any excess. Do this several times if you like, but remember it will darken the leather. If you want you can then finish off with carnuba cream which gives more of gloss finish.

The reason I seal the inside with the above process is to keep the inside of the sheath as clean and dry as possible. Any sheath will pick up dust and grime over time which will eventually get embedded into the leather. Beeswax/paraffin I have found to be almost a grime magnet. With a sheath sealed like above you can once or twice a year take the sheath and turn it upside down. Using a can of air (not an air hose-too much pressure) blow it out. Then rinse it out with lukewarm water. Yes you heard me right! With it sealed like above a quick rinse won't hurt it. I then take a hair dryer on LOW and blow warm air into the sheath for about three or four minutes. Turn the sheath upside down and let dry for at least 24 hours.

As an aside if you're going to use a knife there is NO way to totally stop scratches or marks except to leave the knife in a box. The method I've described above I've used for over thirty years and it has worked in all kinds of weather and conditions from the very rainy Pacific Northwest to the hot, dry and, very dusty high desert where I now live.

Hope this helps.

[Sandy Morrissey]

Chuck took the words right out of my mouth--the rascal!!! If you still desire to get the excess wax out of the sheath, try stuffing the sheath with kraft paper (brown paper bags) and use the hair dryer sufficiently to melt the wax. The brown paper will readily absorb the melted wax. Repeat until very little is absorbed--- Be careful not to toast the leather unless you want to fashion another sheath. Sandy

[MtMike]

Having absolutley no data to support my theory, I'll just toss this into the mix -- sealing the inside of the sheath may in fact help trap moisture inside the sheath, giving the exact opposite of the intended result, namely to protect the blade. Seems to me that a good coat of water-repellant oil/wax on the ouside only might be better in the long run, allowing moisture to wick out rather than get trapped inside.
From the standpoint of constructing the sheath, it also seems that if I were to seal the inside I'd have to be careful to leave the seams untouched, else the glue wouldn't bond properly. So in any case there will still be places for water to do its thing, and we all know how insidious water can be.
Okay Chuck, Sandy -- your turn to show me the errors in my logic. Just spitballin' here, but makes sense to me.
MtMike

[Chuck Burrows]

OK heres my take on it-

1) Leather is hygroscopic (it absorbs water) especially the flesh side so if you seal the outside of the sheath only the moisture can become "trapped" in the cells of the leather which are next to the blade so .......

2) Water can get in next to the blade of course even when it is sealed but this is then similar to the same situation you have when using a kydex sheath. The biggest entrance for moisture is at the throat of the sheath, anything else is secondary. So good tight fit at this point is essential to limiting the amount of moisture from getting inside. Therefore by it's design a pouch type sheath is the hardest style of sheath to keep water from entering the inside. The best way to keep things dry is to wear a garment that covers the knife/sheath. A small hole near the tip can help drain the inside, but even this is no guarantee that your blade will not get/stay wet (plus it puts another hole for a water to enter!)

3) You do need to keep the seam area fairly free of sealer for gluing, but it isn't that critical at least if you're using contact cement. Just make sure the sealer is thoroughly dry and then rough up the area with a small wire brush or some 80 grit sandpaper before applying your glue.

The bottom line is that there is no 100% method of keeping a blade dry no matter what material you use for making a sheath. Allowing your leather sheath to dry after it gets good and soaked is going to be necessary if you wear it in inclement weather.
Besides wet alone is no the worst culprit. Dirt, grime, blood, etc are all much worse problems and if you clean a non-absorbent surface on the inside fairly easily then so much the better in my experience anyway.

For me the proof is in the pudding so to speak. I've worn sheaths made both ways in lots of wet weather (lived and worked in Pacific NW rain forest for 25 years) and I'm convinced the sealed inside is the best way to go. Mostly I've carried carbon steel not stainless blades and one thing I have always done is wipe my blade down with a very thin coat of olive oil and let sit a bit and then wipe it off but not totally dry. Using this method I have never seriously rusted a blade. Of course I've always let my carbon blades get a patina which acts as a barrier. Don't like highly polished, shiny blades anyway so this has never been a problem for me.

[PrattBard]

Well Chuck, once I fell in a creek. Now this is before making my own sheaths. From what I observed, the hole in the bottom is very useful to empty out the puddle in your sheath. a good tight fit is the best so excess water won't get inside to begin with.

a hole in the bottom (like in a fold over, just not stiching up the tip) gravity helps keep the water out. Unless your todally submerged. ;-)

I had a cheesey store bought one(came with the even cheesyier knife)...and oh my did that suck up the water. I don't think they sealed ANY of it!! I dried before the sheath did! I was worried about my blade rusting out in it..so I desided to dry it off and coat is with the only water proofing agent I had on me....a tube of chapstick. Rubbed it on, and buffed it up really well, left a thin later on. Seemed to work good and the water beaded on the blade real nice after that too.

I couldn't just leave the blade out of it, cause it "grew" and I knew it would shrink as it dried, so I had to keep the knife in so it would still fit the knife.
Only 100 percent method of keeping your sheath dry would be to carry it in a vacume sealed bag...

Lara

[GLDOYLE]

THANKS GUY`S FOR THE REPLYS
AS I`M NOT AT ALL HAPPY WITH THE WAX PROBLEM I`M
GOING TO TRY SOMETHING ELSE AND WILD ROSE `S METHOD
SEEMS LIKE A GOOD PLACE TO START. THANKS AGAIN
FOR ALL REPLYS ,
LARRY

[Chuck Burrows]

Larry-
If you run into any problems or need to pick my brain a bit more feel free to email me at chuck@wrtcleather.com

Chuck

[GLDOYLE]

THANKS CHUCK
I MAY HAVE TO DO THAT
I`LL GIVE IT A TRY FIRST
LARRY

[MtMike]

Hey Larry
turn down your caps-lock buddy, too loud
Mike