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The Damascus Forum The art and study of Damascus steel making.

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  #1  
Old 01-25-2009, 06:09 PM
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ArielSalaverria ArielSalaverria is offline
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Making a fully stainless damascus spoon - WIP - Lots of pictures

I took pictures of the process of making this spoon, as it was an interesting challenge to make.

First six pictures are from another Tutorial I've made: Forging Stainless 304 and Stainless 420 MV
http://www.aescustomknives.com/docs/tutorial16.htm

Since it's exactly the same process, I didn't see the point in taking new pics of this step. Only difference is that for this spoon, the cannister is 8" long -twice as the one pictured. Cannister is 40x40mm and the thickness is 2mm.


After making the canister, I put some kitchen paper soaked in WD40 inside. This will burn and consume the O2 inside the can, creating the reduced atmosphere needed for the welding of stainless steels.






Can filled with alternated sheets of 304 (0.3mm) and 420 MV -420 with added Molibdenum Vanadium- (0.7mm)




Then I gotta weld it closed so no extra O2 gets inside.








From now on, pictures are of the actual spoon making process.

Oven at welding temperature, ready to receive the canned steels.




Welding temperature.




After I flaten it with the press, I get rid of the cannister by grinding it off.




Oven at forging temperature.

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  #2  
Old 01-25-2009, 06:10 PM
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ArielSalaverria ArielSalaverria is offline
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Stainless forging temperature range. 900C - 1150C






Stretched sheet of damascus.




Thicker, about 10mm, in the area where I'll make the spoon head.




Drilling the damascus sheet to get the desired pattern (4mm drill bit, 2mm deep)




Almost done.




I keep heating to forge tempertature and flattening the piece until I reach a 4mm thickness.






I glue a template for the spoon shape on the damascus piece.




And then cut it.

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  #3  
Old 01-25-2009, 06:11 PM
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ArielSalaverria ArielSalaverria is offline
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To get the proper spoon shape, after I heat the soon-to-be-spoon, I use a modified inner bearing ring (previosly heated and pressed to an oval shape) and a hammer head with a round end.






Now this starts to look like a real spoon.




Then I finish the forging to shape manually, with a smaller hammer.






After the spoon is shaped, I grind the inner part of the head with a spherical grinding stone, mounted on a bench drill.




For the outter part I use regular sanding belts, mounted on a rubber adaptor on my bench grinder.




And then polish the inner part with sand paper, manually.






After I get a mirror polish, I etch it in acid just like I do with all my damascus pieces. Process is shown in this other Tutorial: Etching a Maker's Mark
http://www.aescustomknives.com/docs/tutorial13.htm


There are some concepts of forging and welding stainless steels that I'd like to talk about for a second.

Some makers I've known personally believe that welding and forging temperatures of stainless steels are higher than on carbon steels, as they assume stainless steels have a higher fusion point than carbon ones.

Nothing further from the truth!

Stainless steels melt at lower temperatures than regular carbon steels. Stainless steels can be hot forged just like carbon steels, but since they have intrinsec characteristics and properties, it's imperative that you take some particular and important meassures to achive a successful forging.

Stainless steels' thermal conductivity is lower than carbon steels'. At higher temperatures, stainless steels are harder and less plastic than carbon steels. They require about 40% more hits to achieve the same deformation.

This lack of plasticity causes the need for more heating cycles, and, as they have a "slow" thermal conductivity, these cycles should be done very slowly, to achieve a uniform temperature in the entire piece to forge.

It's better not to heat it to the direct flame, as this causes the steel to get oxidized. For this reason, as I still haven't finished my induction oven, is that I leave it thicker than needed and then I get rid of a good 1mm on each side, by grinding it off, after the piece cooled off.

It's also very important to properly measure the temperature in the oven while you're heating for forging, as if it goes lower than 900C, this can cause fissures on the steel.

Because of all of this precautions that I have to take into consideration when forging stainless steels, as well as the extra cost of the materials involved, is that I consider the cost of making this type of stainless damascus to be about as twice as making regular carbon damascus.


Here's a picture of the finished spoon



More pictures of it on the Gallery of my website:
http://www.aescustomknives.com/docs/gallery.htm




Sign up for my Newsletter:
http://yourwebapps.com/WebApps/mail-...cgi?list=79955


Thanks for looking!


Ariel
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  #4  
Old 01-25-2009, 10:33 PM
SIXFOOTER SIXFOOTER is offline
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Dammit Man! Thats beautiful. Nice writeup
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2009, 08:05 AM
cassio cassio is offline
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bah

Ch?, mui lindo su trabajo....
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2009, 08:42 AM
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Cal Ganshorn Cal Ganshorn is offline
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Spoon

Ariel, that is a wonderful write up and a real piece of craftsmanship.
Thanks for sharing.
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  #7  
Old 01-29-2009, 07:18 PM
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ArielSalaverria ArielSalaverria is offline
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Thanks guys!

Ariel
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2009, 06:29 AM
cassio cassio is offline
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2 questions?

1- how do you coloring stailess still?
2-do you hava a project about induction oven?
tks
congratulations
cassio
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:57 AM
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ArielSalaverria ArielSalaverria is offline
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Cassio, I heat the piece to get the colors you see in pendants and bottle openers


I've got lots of emails and PMs with similar questions, so I'll reply in public so that everyone can read about it
If you have anymore questions, please feel free to ask.


About where I get the 304 and 420, a knifemaker friend of mine got it for me on a company that sells to factories. They sell thin stainless steel sheets for different uses, and since the thickness was appropiate for my use, I got some 2x1 meters sheets and got them cutted in strips to use.

I have no idea where to get that stuff in the US or Canada, but if I were to look for it, I wouldn't look for typical knife steel companies but to companies that cater to factories. For what is worth, I buy the carbon steel sheets I use on my regular damascus (1010 and 1070) in a place that makes huge metallic zip ties to tie tree trunks while in transport.

If you can not get 420, any other stainless steel with a regular knife steel carbon content and lower Chromium content than 304 will do. I use these two as they're a perfect combination of the steels I can get my hands on, but that doesn't mean this is the only stainless combo that will get this contrast.

I'm sorry to report that you will need a hydraulic press if you want to get full welded pieces and consistent results. Hand hammering will get you too much waste, as only some small parts will weld, I tried it several times before making my press and it's a real PITA and a dissapointment.

The burning of WD-40 soaked paper is to remove the oxigen so I can get the stainless steels to weld. I don't know how much (if any) carbon this adds to the stainless steel, but since I'm just welding it at that part, I don't care about it. As later on I forge to make it thinner and longuer and the direct flame already causes oxidation, I take care of the entire problem by grinding off that extra thickness I leave because of this.

No real plans yet to make an induction oven, I'm still in a generic research / knowledge gathering stage.


The acid I use for etching is indeed the same ferric chloride you can get at Radio Shack or similar. It's the one that's used to eat up circuit boards. What's important is that it's not overly used and "fresh" (not stale) as any of those circumstances will make for a bad etching. The end piece ends up looking washed up.


I never got anyone to complain about rash reaction to the nickel in the stainless steels, and since 304 and 420 are used in the medical field, I'd assume this probability is low. Might cause some rash in people with over sensitive skin, but so far I haven't got any problems with it (I've made several pendants for family members and friends and they all are happy with them)

The blacker parts will slightly fade a bit with continuous use such has pendants and the like, but a notorius difference will always remain there. It's a combination of factors (differende in surfaces, actual etching, light incidende, etc) that makes them look good even after a long time. And if you ever want to restore it to original condition, all you have to do is put it on acid for 30-60 seconds.


Ariel
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2009, 12:45 PM
Zsartell Zsartell is offline
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Ariel,

Thanks for the demo. I just love your work. You say that you are using 304 and 420. It's not too hard to get 420 here in the states with a carbon of .15 and chromium of 12-14 and no nickel. I was wondering whether you are using 304 or 304L. I know that the 304L has a carbon count of .03 instead of the regular 304 that is .08. I would imagine that the 304L with the lower carbon content would help keep the 304 very bright and therefore the 420 nice and dark in contrast. I was just curious.

Thanks
Zach
Iron Oak Forge
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  #11  
Old 02-04-2009, 05:31 AM
cassio cassio is offline
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thanks

Ariel,
thank for your explanation, it?s really beautiful,
saudaciones gauchas
cassio
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2009, 06:09 AM
dburke26 dburke26 is offline
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This is my first time on this forum. This article blows my mind. INCREDIBLE!!
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2012, 10:47 PM
sidlett sidlett is offline
 
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wow...nice
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  #14  
Old 03-28-2013, 02:22 PM
jayger jayger is offline
 
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I really loved ur work

Appreciated.
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2013, 08:43 PM
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hondo76 hondo76 is offline
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Dam that is cool!!!!!
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