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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 11-11-2007, 01:37 PM
Bob Hartman Bob Hartman is offline
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Hydraulic Press Ram Speed

Okay, I finally found a nice chunk of 16"x#57 Wide Flange beam, and a 5" cylinder. I have all the math for different flow rates, horsepower, and tonnage. What I can't seem to visualize is how fast I want the Ram to move. Is 1"/sec too fast? too slow? !/2"/sec? What seems to work for you?
I should mention that I plan on using a 2-stage pump, so we are just talking working speed.
Thanks,
Bob
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2007, 01:44 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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With an 11.5 gpm, single stage pump, and a 6" dia ram, my press moves at 1" per second. I've worked on presses that go as fast as 3" per second, and find them difficult to use. Now that may be from the fact that I'm just used to the speed mine runs at, however, I find that the faster the ram moves, the less time you have to make any adjustments with your work piece.
I also think that since your using a 2-stage pump, a slower ram speed would be better because of the sudden burst of power (not speed) your going to get when the 2nd stage kicks in. The first time I used a press with a 2-stage pump, I wrecked a very nice billet of mosaic because I wasn't prepared for the 2nd stage kicking in, and over pressed the billet by a large margin.


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Last edited by Ed Caffrey; 11-12-2007 at 09:08 PM.
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2007, 01:56 PM
Bob Hartman Bob Hartman is offline
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Thanks Ed,
I had'nt considered what would happen when the second stage kicks in. Maybe 1/2"/sec
would be okay since the Ram lifts enough to just clear the Billet anyway.
Bob
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:37 PM
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Your pump will move faster in the first stage. If it is moving 1-2 inches /second with 11.5 gmp then at 4 gpm second stage should move 1/4 the rate. As Ed pointed out the slower movement allows for better control. On my press I seldom get the second stage to kick in. Most of my forging is done in the 500 psi range. I do have an 8" cylinder though. I only need the second stage when I do a weld or am doing mosaic boxes.

Chuck


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Old 11-12-2007, 04:32 PM
plain ol Bill plain ol Bill is offline
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I use a 2 stage pump on my press and like Chuck rarely does the pressure build up to the point it kicks in. But when it does kick in the speed is cut in half approx. not twice the first stage. I know my press keeps on pushing after Tom Ferrys would quit but then he is using a single stage pump.


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Old 11-14-2007, 12:46 AM
Bruce D Bump Bruce D Bump is offline
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Mine has a 11 gpm pump and a 5" cylinder with a 2 stage pump. When I built it the chart showed it travels at 1.5" per second. It is great until I need to do some fine work on edge, then it seems too fast. Maybe the single stage pump would be slower and more control. I think I will try a longer lever on the valve first.

Last edited by Bruce D Bump; 11-14-2007 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce D Bump
Mine has a 11 gpm pump and a 5" cylinder with a 2 stage pump. When I built it the chart showed it travels at 1.5" per second. It is great until I need to do some fine work on edge, then it seems too fast. Maybe the single stage pump would be slower and more control. I think I will try a longer lever on the valve first.
Bruce,
Do not go with a single stage pump. A 2 stage is much better for what we do. There is a flow limiter that can be adjusted to reduce the flow rate. I think this would give you better control.

Chuck


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Old 11-14-2007, 08:23 PM
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Bruce,

Here is a link to one. It is a bit expensive but you can probably find one cheaper.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...9027_200339027

Chuck


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Old 11-14-2007, 08:25 PM
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Even a better one

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...5621_200335621


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  #10  
Old 11-15-2007, 09:29 AM
Bruce D Bump Bruce D Bump is offline
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Thanks for the help Chuck
This control valve is may be the ticket. I like the second one as it doesnt need voltage. It looks simiple enough, would it just go between the 4 way valve and the cylinder?
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:00 AM
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Bruce.
You should be able to put it inline just about any place on the pressure side. I would put it before the 4way. They also have several other types and prices from $54 on Up.

Chuck


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  #12  
Old 11-15-2007, 11:14 AM
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Thats very similar to the flow control on my press. Mine is smaller, and you have to take a cover off to adjust it....but it does make a huge difference (to the good). After some playing around I got mine dialed in at about 24 tons, which I think is just about right, and its been there ever since.

I often giggle to myself when individuals tell (more like brag to) me that they have, or are going to build a press that has huge tonnage (like 80-100 tons). I thought that way once too, but after working on an 80 ton press, I quickly learned that you screw more stuff up than you get right. When you have a press that has high tonnage, the temptation is always there to use all the power you have, and most times stuff gets wrecked from over pressing it. In this case, more is certainly NOT better.


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  #13  
Old 11-15-2007, 12:12 PM
Matt Walker Matt Walker is offline
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http://www.matthewdwalker.com/files/...MattsPress.pdf
May be something here that will help.
Matt


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Old 11-15-2007, 12:56 PM
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Alan L Alan L is offline
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Just a quick plug for Matt's press: I've used it to make a couple of BIG billets (sword sized), and the control and ease of use with the rocking foot pedal using the valve set to neutral center is amazing. I've only screwed up by oversquishing a couple of times.
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Old 11-15-2007, 06:06 PM
plain ol Bill plain ol Bill is offline
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Just keep in mind guys that you are working with material with almost the consistency of modeling clay when it is hot enough. My press develops an honest 30 ton using the 6" cylinder and I don't think I have ever maxed it out for pressure.


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