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Old 11-22-2001, 01:16 AM
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A giveaway (contest that is!)

With permission of Alex, and CKD, Douglas Mondt and myself have decided to run a contest! The prize: a knife of course! More than that, one of the 3 Exclusive knives Doug has made for my website:

Steel: CPM10V RC61
Blade: Flat ground, 600 grit hand rubbed 2 1/2" blade, 5" OAL
Filework: Roped on Blade Spine
Handle: Maroon Micarta W/ S/S pins

There are a FEW rules:

1. No makers, sorry for collectors only. You must also be a registered member of CKD.

2. Contest will end on December 5th Midnight MST.

3. Oh yeah, to win, you must enter. A small essay (100 words max) "Why this Knife belongs in my collection"

4. 1 entry only per person. Editing is allowed up until the aforementioned deadline.

The judges and final authority on the winner are:

Doug Mondt (Maker)
Mondt Knives

Paul Vandine (Purveyor)

In the immortal words of Conner MacCloud "There can be only one!"

Good Luck!

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Old 11-23-2001, 12:37 PM
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A giveaway (contest that is!)

Paul, is there any particular reason why *makers* are excluded from this "(contest that is)"? Is this possibly because you feel that so many "knifemakers are heartless and souless"?? You know, I just think I could live with myself if I had that opinion of the people that I begged for *their* assistance in trying to get a business going with no capital whatsoever.

Please do tell me/us why you feel this way about knifemakers. Although this isn't an essay, I thought this might be a good place to get an answer to *this* question.

Have a good one there Paul purveyor.

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Old 11-23-2001, 12:45 PM
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Re: A giveaway (contest that is!)

I was wondering the same thing,having just read the thread on tkcl,in which you,(Paul)stated that knifemakers are heartless and soulless,BTW,what is your reasoning for such an assumption.As a maker I would never enter a knife giveaway contest,but am still interested in your reasons for making those hateful statements on a public forum(TKCL) about the very people whose creations you depend on for a living.
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Old 11-23-2001, 12:58 PM
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I am in stark disbelief that Alex & CKD would allow this contest to take place with the rules excluding makers, much less showing favoritism towards a particular "purveyor" by allowing the free and self serving advertising.
As a new Custom maker and also as a COLLECTOR, I am deeply offended that, in a forum by and for the knife community I am excluded from a contest sponsed in part by CKD because I make knives.
This is certanly inappropriate for the "General Forum", and were I a "purveyor" I'd be talking to CKD about my equal time to be posted in the General forum.
I guess all I can do as a CKD member is vote with my $$$ and not buy knives from Paul Purveyor and not buy Mondt knives, however nice they may be.
Fact is that by requiring one to be a CKD member to enter but by not including certain "sections" of the CKD membership I believe I have a strong case to argue about discriminitory practices.....
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Old 11-23-2001, 01:29 PM
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Actually, Paul did ask for permission to run the contest, and I granted it.

However, I want the rules to be slightly ammended to "open voting" for the winning entrant's essay (that is, essays must be posted on this forum and reasons given on whay the winner's entry was selected) ... and the contest "must" be inclusive of "all" members, visitors and viewers of this forum. That means that a winner should be selected from anyone who desires to enter an essay and to include collectors, purveyors, makers and even people that don't know where they fit in the definitions.

Let's readjust this before it starts ... (I want it to stay located in the General Forum, until such time as we can move it to it's own temporary board). However, let's alter thr rules to include the above before we make this official.

Any problems with this contest should be directed to me ...

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Old 11-23-2001, 01:35 PM
Don Cowles
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One of the few bad things about the internet is our inability to look one another in the eye during our conversations. I speculate that Paul's tongue was in his cheek when he spoke of knifemakers as being heartless, but you can't see the twinkle in the eye when it's in print.

I personally am not offended at being excluded from the contest, though I do wonder why that was necessary.

Folks, I guess in any family or community there are times of friction, but let's let this one pass quickly. We have far too much good going on here to jeopardize it.

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Old 11-23-2001, 01:59 PM
Bob Warner
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I think Don is right. What is written does not necessarily convey the message. Your emotional state and how well you know the writer can greatly influence how you interpret the words. Paul has been actice here and with good intentions so we should maybe give him the benefit of the doubt on his statements. As long as he does not continue to make statements like that I would suggest that he did not mean it as it came out.

As far as the contest, it sounds to me like Mondt has donated a knife for the contest. I think unless Mondt personally gives you reason to avoid his creations, nobody should avoid buying anything from him. Donating something you created is a good thing.

It looks like Alex has amended the rules to include everyone so, "Let the Essay begin."
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Old 11-23-2001, 02:35 PM
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The only reason I exclided makers, was I wanted to make it a contest for collectors. Makers can MAKE knives, any specification they want, collectors cannot. Sorry if I seemed prejudicial.

Concerning my remarks on TKCL, if people would take the time to read the previous post which was VERY tongue in cheek (Edge-Packing and Knife-maker's leaving a bit of their souls in their knives), would then my coming along and saying Say it ain't so! I know Edgepacking is true, I heard it somewhere and we all know that knifemakers are heartless and soulless, why would my post all of a sudden be serious?? Also anyone who knows me KNOWS that I don't feel that way about knifemakers, I am a tireless advocate for knifemakers, especially up and coming makers.

Below I will post MY post that has a few makers upset, please read the quoted part and THEN read my reply and take it in CONTEXT and tell me I was being serious.

> Looks like you have a great new idea for a column in your online
> magazine. The "Debunking Knifemaking Hype" column. 'Course, some
> makers might have problems with it. You could start on edge-packing and
> move on to bits of knifemaker's souls in each knife.

What??? Edgepacking MUST be true! I heard it somewhere! And I know the
soul part also is true, I mean how do you account for all those
heartless and soulless makers out there????

Please say it ain't so!

Now if the 1st part was tongue in cheek, why would I suddenly become serious in the same paragraph???

I am not always the easiest to get along with, but anyone who thinks I am serious in the above post . . . .

Look I am just a businessman trying to survive, but not at the expense of the makers, and NEVER would I say anything like that in seriousness.

We have a contest/giveaway going on, so if ya want a free knife???

Also anyone having a problem from TKCL can send me private email as TKCL is a PRIVATE mailing list.
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Old 11-23-2001, 02:53 PM
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Well about ten makers that I talk to on a daily basis,are all under the impression that you were serious,and they know you,or have dealt with you in one way or another,go figure.
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Old 11-23-2001, 03:02 PM
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Mike, this is no longer the place for this. Please let us focus on the contest? If you wish to continue discussing this please send me a private email, I WOULD be interested in knowing these 10 makers who have such a bad opinion of myself.

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Old 11-23-2001, 03:15 PM
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This is my first contest/Giveaway, so I am new to it and prone to make mistakes they have been rectified by Alex. As for free and selfserving? I am giving a knife away how is that free and self serving? The maker decided he wanted to do it, and as it is an exclusive made FOR my site at MY instigation, should I not play a role in the contest?

And if not in General forum where do you suggest we give this knife away at? It was here or Custom Knife Collecting, would you not also object if I had posted in the other forum?

As for not buying from me or Doug, that is your perogative. I think that it is a shame that you make this statement without even talking to myself and/or Doug, based on a single post, written by someone who had never run a contest before.

I can also see that you are a knife maker and under other circumstances i would ask to see some of your work, and possibly ask to represent it on my site. I have nothing against you as a maker, I don't know you as you don't know me, if you would like to respond to me please send me a private email.

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Old 11-23-2001, 03:36 PM
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I was expressing an opinion that the contest was #1 biased and #2 discriminatory in the way it was set up.

Being human just like the rest of us, you're entitled to make mistakes and that's why Alex stepped in and "corrected" things.

Had this contest been better thought out I'm sure Alex would have been happy to set up a forum specificly for contests.

You are not giving away a knife from the kindness of your heart. Tell me it isn't a tax deductble "advertising" expense, you are doing the contest so as to promote your business and it also happens to promote CKD by possibly enticing people to become members or at least come visit the site. The general forum is not the place for advertising as I'm sure many folks will agree with me.


James Fisher a.k.a Damian
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Old 11-23-2001, 03:42 PM
Don Cowles
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Let's let it rest, guys.
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Old 11-23-2001, 04:15 PM
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This is a Debacle !!! :(


What a bunch of low, knee-jerk responses to a well-intentioned, if not thoroughly though-out attempt to have some fun, and put a good knife in someone's hand. And, truth be told, maybe helping a generous 'purveyor' and new knife maker in the process. I REALLY didn't think from the first moment I saw this post as it being only self-serving.

As for the TKLC comments, they have been skewed way beyond measure. Totally misconstrued and THIS forum was a needless blast at that post, and as a direct target at Paul. I know, I belong to the TKLC mailist myself, and didn't bat an eye to that poking-fun remark. Chill!

Paul's reputation has been scarred needlessly here, and I submit we start a new thread to readdress the original intention, and keep THIS mess out of it. I also feel some apologies are in order. Probably from 'about ten' knifemakers...

It's embarassing.

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Old 11-23-2001, 07:26 PM
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Re: This is a Debacle !!! :(

There is an apology required,IMO and I tender that apology now from the bottom of my heart,to Doug Mondt,who did not deserve this at all.Sorry Doug,you are a generous man and I feel bad for raining on your parade.
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