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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 05-18-2016, 02:20 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Another Coote Grinder Question

Kinda, sorta, maybe, interested in the Coote. Looked at the Grizzly too, but it seems the Coote may be a little more versatile. I think about a KMG but the reality is, at this point I'm having a difficult time justifying the cost. Sure, it may be a better choice, but unless and until I start selling some knives, and in enough numbers, I just can't justify that at this point. I further realize that the KMG will have greater resale value etc. but... Also I'm really not interested in a build-it-yourself grinder.
I can get a reasnably priced motor for the Coote, and may even have one. And so, I had a question, now what was it?

Oh yeah, Is it reasonable to do hollow grinding on the Coote? I really cannot see myself doing hollow grinds, but at the same time, if that lower contact wheel is a good setup for that, I'm thinking I could get the 6" wheel but I believe I would need the 10" to do hollow grinds. It's only $100 more. I'm just not sold on the extra expense for something I cannot at this time envision.

Is hollow grinding and the ability to do so worth the extra $100? ( That is assuming, again, that hollow grinding isn't possibly with a 6" wheel) And is the Coote lower contact wheel a reasonable set-up for hollow grinding or marginal at best? (I know nothing about hollow grinding)

One more. How important (and usable) is a three step pully vs. a 1:1 drive?


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  #2  
Old 05-18-2016, 02:57 PM
damon damon is offline
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from what it looks/sounds like...... you might want to look at the grizzly again.

comes with the 10" contact wheel... flat platen... motor... and spindle on the other side for a buffing wheel.... sounds fairly versatile to me.
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2016, 03:49 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Both the Coote and the Grizzly are two wheel designs and this makes them considerably less versatile than a KMG style grinder. That being as it may be, it is very possible to hollow grind on either one. Maybe not terribly convenient but possible. As for wheel size, you can hollow grind on any size wheel but the most popular are 8" and 10". You might choose a larger or smaller wheel depending on the size of the blade you are grinding but you don't necessarily have to do it that way.

The Coote is probably better built than the Griz and a 3 pulley option would be a big advantage. The bad news is that if you have to buy all the pieces and parts new for the Coote you will likely be in the range of a low end KMG when you are done. That makes it considerably more expensive than the Griz. About half the makers in the country started on a Griz and continue to use them in their shops long after they have acquired much better grinders. Its difficult to find a used Griz as no one lets go of them until they retire from knife making.

So, if the money is the problem you should probably look at the Griz. But, if you price out the Coote with all the stuff you need to set it up and find it affordable then at least check and see how far that leaves you from a base line KMG. If you can get a base KMG today then you can expand it as you can afford to over the next few years and a KMG can always be resold. The two wheel grinders can't be expanded for small wheel attachments, multiple contact wheels, etc....what you get when you buy it is probably all it will ever be but sometimes that's enough ...


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Old 05-18-2016, 07:04 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Okay thanks. I guess perhaps the Grizzly IS the way to go if one should chose to go "on the cheap". I had priced out a Coote, with the bells and whistles, buying a new motor etc, and did indeed get into the realm of just a few hundred more and I can get a KMG. Haven't given up on that idea yet, just not sure I want to invest that much at this time. I'm thinking knife making may be a good part time retirement biz in a few years...something for a little fun money and keep me busy. Could always move up to a KMG and use the Grizzly for handle shaping etc. assuming I could actually get a little business built up. Actually, I'm 55 y.o. with a 10 year old daughter. About the time I'm retirement age she'll be going into college. I'm NEVER going to get to retire!

Anyway, I don't envision doing hollow grinds but if a machine is capable I'd certainly at some point just HAVE to give it a try.
Thanks for the info. Any other insights/wisdom/opinions welcome.


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Old 05-18-2016, 07:39 PM
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I spent the last few working years just before retirement acquiring all the pricey equipment I could get. My logic was that after retirement I wouldn't be able to afford the equipment that I would have to have in order to be a serious knife maker. So, once I did retire, all my equipment was paid for and I then was able to go as a full time maker for the next ten years and managed quite well on that income - which wasn't a lot - because the equipment was paid for. For the entire 10 years I had a 9 to 14 month waiting period so every knife I made was already spoken for and I didn't have to worry much about selling. The reason this was possible was because I was already developing a reputation while I was still a hobbyist and THAT was possible because I had what I needed to make a high quality knife. Just some stuff to consider.

As for hollow grinding, it isn't any more difficult than flat grinding - you simply do it on a wheel instead of a platen. If you try to be a full time maker after retirement you don't want to miss out on a sale because you can't hollow grind, or won't make a kitchen knife, or can't work with stainless or any of the other stuff that many makers ignore and then wonder why they can't sell as much as they want to....


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Old 05-19-2016, 08:58 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Good food for thought. Thanks Ray.


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Old 05-20-2016, 08:21 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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I'm also guessing the 6 for $20 belts from Amazon isn't what is desirable and less than ideal?

There was a wealth of info from Ray about belts and sources but it's buried in the neverendingthread and I'm not motivated to wade through 4,576,284 pages of that thread to find the info.

Regardless the grinder, they have to be fed something.

I also just realized the KMG, when ordered with the 8 or 10" wheel, also comes with the platen.


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Old 05-20-2016, 08:51 AM
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6 for $20 !! LOL Oh, that's a good one.

Actually, there are certain worthwhile belts that might be had for about that price so it depends on what belt you're talking about. The short class on belts goes like this:

The most important belts you buy will be the coarse belts used for grinding your bevels. These need to be ceramic belts of about 60 grit. These belts may start around $5 each but most run closer to $10 each. Plan on using one fresh belt on each knife (unless maybe you're making tiny knives). These belts when worn can then be used for profiling before being discarded.

All other belts will be cheaper and last longer as a rule of thumb.

Check out Tru-Grit as a source for belts. They carry every belt known to man and their prices are as good or better than most.

I like the VSM in 60 grit, Norton zirconia in 120 and 220, and Hermes 400. Those belts are solid workers and are a good place to start, they get the job done. After that, most people will experiment by adding or substituting other belts as they zero in on what works best for them. I doubt you can find two knife makers who use exactly the same belts and finishing process.

Figure on buying twice as many 60 grit as the others. I usually order 20 60 grit, 5 12o grit, 10 220 and 10 400 ....


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Old 05-20-2016, 11:52 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Thanks Ray. I was hoping you'd take the bait! Actually the prices you quote don't seem as bad as I expected.
BTW that Tru-Grit site is a great resource I wasn't aware of.



How about 6 for $18.50!!
Sungold Abrasives 67618 80 Grit X-Weight Aluminum Oxide Sanding Belts (Pack of 6), 2 Sungold Abrasives 67618 80 Grit X-Weight Aluminum Oxide Sanding Belts (Pack of 6), 2" by 72" - - Amazon.com

(actually if one would hold up enough to get through one knife...)


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Old 05-20-2016, 12:43 PM
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No, you don't want AO for the coarse grinding, virtually worthless IMO. Ceramic or nothing.

To get clean grind lines you need sharp belts, you don't want the belt getting too dull before you get finished. You can, of course, use several of those AO belts on one blade and probably get the same result but there's no savings in that.

The best advice I ever received on belts was to learn to treat them like they are free. That's hard to do, but it pays big dividends in the quality of your blade's appearance ...


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