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  #1  
Old 12-30-2006, 11:29 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Socket 754 motherboards....

I know I'm behind the times, using 754 motherboards, but I still have 3-4 754 pin processors around the office. I've become a closet computer builder, just because I enjoy it.

I've been using an MSI k8N Neo Platinum in my office computer for about 9 months now and am very pleased with it. I've got it paired up with an AMD Athlon 64 (3400+ Clawhammer) CPU, 1gb of OCZ Gold memory, 3 SATA hard drives, and an XFX 5500 video card.

Here's my question.... the MSI K8N Neo Platinum in socket 754 is getting hard to come by, as well as the ASUS K8N E Deluxe, which are the two 754 boards I favor. Both of these boards support the AMD cool-n-quiet, which I really like, and both are very fast. Since it seems like 754 boards are becoming extinct, I'd like to rat hole 2-3 for future builds....what are your opinions on other boards I should be looking at?

The only graphics slots I've ever used are AGP, so the newer PC express slots have me a bit baffled. Looking at the shrinking supply of AGP video cards, I suppose that sooner or later I'll have to make the jump to the newer cards.


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  #2  
Old 12-31-2006, 07:19 AM
dmarx dmarx is offline
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Hey Ed,

A fellow computer builder; how do ya like that? I like those boards also but.....

All the good technology from those boards will be in the next gen boards, along with better compliance with, tada, MS Vista. Vista is to Windows as OS 10 was to OS9. Big time hardware and software changes. Unlike Win XP, which ran with legacy hardware just fine, Vista will require not only the usual, bigger faster, etc., but to get the Ultimate out of it you'll definitely need new hardware. For instance, the full blown 3D Aero UI will require DX10 compatible video cards with a minimum 256mb video memory. You won't find that in AGP and I don't think you ever will. (You'll find the 256mb memory, but not the DX10 compatability) There are going to be a lot of unhappy campers shortly who bought $500 Dell's for Christmas, and who are going to be really surprised to find that they won't be able to run Vista Ultimate. (Ultimate is the top-of-the-line Vista version) Keep an eye on Tom's Hardware and Anandtech to see what it's going to really need.

If I were you, I'd wait for the new line to come out, (I believe a couple of months) and see how things shake out. Otherwise you'll be in the same boat as Dell users.

Dave
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2006, 09:25 AM
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Thanks Dave!

I'll likely be sticking with XP for at least a year after vista hits the streets. I'm one of those guys who won't jump on the bandwagon until something new has proven itself. I have been reading up a bit on the requirements of Vista, but had no idea about the video requirements....THANKS!

Prior to using the MSI K8N Neo that is in my office machine, I was pretty fond of Gigabyte boards, but once I used the AMD cool-n-quiet, and found that Gigabyte doesn't support that feature, I started looking around. Now I'm in my experimentation stage.... I have a biostar and an MSI micro board on the way from Newegg. Speaking of that! I've never had/used a board that has on-board video, but the MSI board that I'm intending to use in the shop computer does..... I'm not a gamer, just like to have the computer in the shop for parts/material ordering, and to check emails during the day. What are your thoughts on the on-board video, and how does it differ from having a video card?
Here's a link to the board I ordered: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130058

I ordered the Biostar board only because it was in a combo deal with a 754 3000+ cpu. The board's setup and placement of connections looks a little screwy to me, but if it works, and for the price it's a cheap setup!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138247
I'll have to keep my ear to the ground on Vista and get a good handle on it before I take the leap.


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Old 12-31-2006, 12:20 PM
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Ed,

On-board video is usually a generation or two behind a dedicated video card. Most are starting to move from the AGP to the PCI-Express slots to get the extra performance out of the system.

Depending on use, I have found that the on-board is OK. I am not a serious gamer, so the ultimate in 3-D performance have not been needed. There are times it is nice, but I have never had the need to spend the money on the cutting edge of video.

For your shop system, a good motherboard with the on-board video, or a good low cost AGP card will do more than you ever need from it. Something like

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814145067

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127181

Looking at the specs on the one you ordered, the on-board can impact your performance since the video memory is shared with main memory, but for e-mail/web/etc, you probably will never notice.

I would build the system using the on-board video, and see if the perfomance feels good to you, if it does you are done, otherwise, upgrade to a DX9 video card for $30-50.

--Carl


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Old 12-31-2006, 01:59 PM
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Hi Carl!

Thanks for those links! I've glanced at the MSI card before, but never really looked at until now. If the onboard video doesn't work out I will be grabbing on of those.

I'm gona try something with this new system for the shop that I've never done before....I'm going to try to filter the incoming air in an effort to keep all the dust in the shop....and not inside the computer. I purchased a large sheet of the material thats used for air conditioner filters, and plan on cutting/attaching it to any place on the case that sucks in air. Another thought that came to mind is robbing some old nylons from my Mrs. and using those as filters.

OH! I gotta tell you what I found. A month or so ago I was at our local electronics shop and found some new fans put out by Enermax. Their called "Marathon", and are made with an "enlobal" bearing. I put a 120mm in the back of the case, and an 80mm in the front. I also installed a 120mm in the power supply. What a difference! Now the only thing you hear is the cpu fan when it kicks into high great. Cut the noise of my system by at least 2/3! I have had to return two of them due to clattering because of unbalanced fans, but the ones that work, work darn good!


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  #6  
Old 12-31-2006, 02:07 PM
dmarx dmarx is offline
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Funny, I'm using the same MSI board. Luv it.

The comment about not needing much video cause you don't play games has been true since Win 95. You could have 2 machines side by side; one with on-board video and one with a $500 video card; and if you were running Word or Excell you wouldn't tell the difference. Vista changes all that. Aero uses 3d vector graphics and ALL screen images are done by the GPU and the new Physics Processors. For the first time ever, you WILL be able to tell the difference. If you or anybody else decides to get on-board video, just make sure there is also a video card slot so you'll have an upgrade path. I'm thinking when we really see what Vista can do graphics and performance and security wise, you're going to want it.

By the way, I have nothing to do with Microsoft; just so you know. I work full time in a school system in the technology department and use Mac's and PC's all day, then go home and build and repair computers for my side business. (talk about a nerd) I'll check out those links.

Dave
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  #7  
Old 12-31-2006, 02:33 PM
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Ed, love the ball bearing fans, I have gone to a laptop for all but my heaviest computing needs (3-d rendering, movie making, etc).

Dave, I am very leary about Vista, but then I am very careful about MS stuff anyway. Have read too many of their ####### agreements, and some of the stuff they tried to pull with the Vista ####### went way to far. I tend to use Linux whenever possible, but do have some XP in the house. From what I have been reading, Vista will be about a year out before it is recommended for home. All the reviews are saying it isn't ready, MS rushed the release to keep from pissing off corps that they strong armed into their upgrade #######, no Vista in 2006 and they would have been completely screwed with the #######, so MS had to release. Most corps are waiting till things stabalize before upgrading. Security is a big question, most is done by turning things off that were on by default. However, the black hats have already started selling hacks. It hasn't hit the market, and is already compromised, MS is going to have a hard time trying to keep up.

--Carl


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  #8  
Old 01-01-2007, 01:42 PM
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Well, Lets talk about these "new" graphics cards. I see boards that have PCI express, PCI express 16, etc. What should I be looking for? Of course the cards going to have to be compliant with the slot on the board, but what's the ups and downs of the different varieties?

I certainly don't need one of those $200 graphics cards, but what brands should I be looking at in the newer cards? I'm currently running an XFX 5500 in my office machine.

Also, what does the DX9 and DX10 mean?


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  #9  
Old 01-01-2007, 02:00 PM
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Ed,

The DX9 and DX10 are different versions of MS DirectX support (version 9 or 10).

The board you just got has the AGP 8x slot, so that is the type you are going to want. PCI express is usually found in x1, x4, and x16 sizes. The x4 is not common, most motherboards have the PCI express x16 slots. This gives a lot more performance than the AGP.

A lot of the big ones need a lot of extra power and cooling. So if you ever step up to one, be sure to beef up the system to take that into account (I think some of the really high end ones even need another plug into the wall).

--Carl


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  #10  
Old 01-05-2007, 04:47 PM
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Well, I got the new motherboard and processor in a few days ago. Got the machine built and now it's the shop computer. I'm running it with the on-board graphics, and so far it seems to be doing the job.

I built it with the following:

The MSI motherboard (the one in the previous link)
AMD Athlon 64/3000+ 754
A single 1gb stick of Ultra DDR 400 memory
Maxtor 200gb hard drive (wired in IDE because it was a cheap hard drive)
Lite On CD/DVD/combo drive
Dlink DWL-G520 wireless card

I wasn't even going to put a floppy drive in the thing until I fired it up and found theres no option for disabling a floppy in the BIOS, and I kept getting the floppy error message, so I cracked it open again and slapped in a old floppy I had laying around, problem solved.

It's not speed demon, but for email, web, and ordering parts while in the shop I don't need to burn up the wires.

The one thing I did do was go out and purchase some air conditioner filter material and filtered all the air intakes....maybe I can keep at least most of the steel, wood, and other dust thats always floating around the shop.


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