Cover/Broadwell Pen

[Tim Adlam]

Posted for Ray Cover Jr.

[Ray Cover Jr]

Thanks Tim for posting this for me. Hopefully, before Easter weekend is over I will have a web album set up so I can post my own pics.

This is a job I recently finished. The pen body and cap band are titanium. Lots of fine line shading and a little bit of gold inlay. David and I have done several colaboration pens now and we have been very well recieved by the pen market. Its kinda fun for me to work on something different from time to time.

Ray

[rhrocker]

Great work Ray!

[Swafford]

Wow!!! Ray, that engraving job really compliments the pen. Very nice :cool: .

[Don Cowles]

Super!

[ron p. nott]

Hey Ray nice job and thanks for the photos ..

[Joe Mason]

Thanks for the pictures Ray. Great looking scroll work.

Joe

[smithwessonengr]

ray,that is a very classy pen,was that titanium difficult to cut?

[Ray Cover Jr]

Wayne,

This is going to be long so remember you did ask :-)

Here is the thing about engravaing titanium. And you can quote me on this. It all depends on what alloy of titanium you are cutting.

The pen above is CP (comercially pure) grade titanium. It cut about like 416SS only a little gummier (but not drastically). I have also cut 3al2v alloy titamium and it cut almost exactly like 416SS. I enjoy working on either of these two titanium alloys.

However, my experiences with 6al4v alloy, that knifemakers like to use on everything, have not been pleasant at all. I have engraved it and charged accordingly but it is very hard (in my oppinion) to get top notch work done sucessfully on 6al4v. It is very tough and seems to want to shear rather than cut which produces ragged burs and the occasional tear out. It is very hard to cut it clean. It is also hard on gravers. You spend a lot of time sharpening when cutting it.

I have had makers tell me," Oh, engraver so and so cuts that 6al4v all the time and has no problem with it." Then when I look at engraver so and so's work on the maker's knife I see all the problems I just described above. Maybe the maker and maybe engraver so and so did not have a problem with it. However, if it were my work, I would have had a problem with it looking like that (I don't like ragged cuts). The reason I mention this is so you have a heads up in case you run into a maker or other engraver who says 6al4v is not a problem and wants you to work on it. Look closely at an example before you buy into it. It will save you a lot of headache.

Now for the disclaimer (don't throw rotten fruit!):-)
I certainly have not seen every example of engraving on 6al4v. Furthermore, I certainly do not know everything there is to know about engraving. There may very well be someone out there who can produce top quality work on the stuff (if you find him please pass on his technique to me so I can do it as well). That being said, every piece of engraving on 6al4v that I have seen personally has had the problems above. Yes, I enclude my own work in that statement. That is why I will not engrave it anymore.

In short, some titaniums are pleasant to cut and others are a bear. Just make sure of what alloy you are working with.

Ray

[smithwessonengr]

ray,i really appreciate all your great advice,i can understand where your coming from,im working on a centofante knife its posted here on the forum under nude folder in the works,ive done one before and swore i would never cut another centofante again...his knives are so hard that i cant get fine hairline shading on them never mind trying to do bulino,this is the last centofante that i will cut...if i can't get get top quality ,its not worth my time

[Ray Cover Jr]

Wayne,

Speaking of hard materails to cut, I have a good one for you. when I had first gone full time as an engraver I had a guy give me a knife to have the bolsters engraved. I assumed it was steel and he did not say anything to the contrary so I took the order. I started cutting this thing and I thought I was going to die. It was the hardest most difficult to cut material I had ever tried. I labored through it got it finished. I hated the way it looked. I appologetically gave it back to him and ask what he heck he did to make those bolsters so tough.

He said," Oh, I didn't do anything to them. I had a couple small scraps of stellite around the shop and I couldn't do anything else with them so I used it for bolster material."

That job taught me to make sure of what material I was cutting before taking a job. I won't even take work on a new material now without being provided a piece of scrap to play with. That way I don't get any supprises.

Ray

[Darren]

Hey Ray:
I love that pen you engraved!! very very nice!!
I have to admit that I wasn't familiar with your work.
I'm just sad that I have missed out on seeing your beautiful engraving all these years, But on the other hand I'm very glade you decided to join us here. I am most definitely looking forward to seeing more.

Darren

[Ray Cover Jr]

Darren,

Thanks for the kind words.

You can see a lot of my work on my website. I have a lot of photos there. The url is my signature below. When you get to the start page just follow the link to my engraving pages.

Ray

[Tim Adlam]

This brings up an interesting subject I've thought about for a long time.

If someone wants to commission engraving work, wouldn't it be best for all if the material was workable?
It's a given that you do your best work when you don't have to fight the base metal to begin with.
Unfortunately, most engraving on knives becomes an "afterthought".

I don't usually inquire about what the bolster or frame material is.
Recently I learned that some makers harden their 416SS frames.
This can lead to problems for doing really fine work.
I don't know what the answer would be, but if the maker would consider that the end purchaser
might, at one time, want their piece embellished...
It would be nice to know the origin of the "canvas" material.

Tim

[Ray Cover Jr]

Tim,

I agree about the material being appropriate for engraving. From my point of view, it is not about being able to say, "I conquered this blasted hard metal 'aint I such the man'" but rather its about doing the best quality and cleanest work I am capable of. If a certian material prevents me from doing my best I pass it by. After all, if a potential customer sees your work done on a dificult materail and it is not up to your usual standards, he may not know just what you can do. This may cause him to look up another engraver.

However, I like heat treated 416SS. As a matter of fact, when I make a stainless reel seat (rather than titanium) for a fly rod I use heat treated 416.

The main purpose for heat treating 416 is to enhance its stainless properties. It rust much easier when not heat treated. 416 does not get "HARD" when heat treated like a tool steel does. It gets a little harder but not to the point that it is difficult to cut. The advantage to me is that it cuts cleaner with less of a raised bur when it is heat treated. To me this helps when doing fine work.

Ray