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  #1  
Old 06-25-2001, 11:45 AM
viper5192
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Circle P Knives has new makers and knives!


Come take a look! Keep a watch out for exclusive knives coming soon.

Think of Vanguard but less expensive ;-)



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  #2  
Old 06-25-2001, 12:18 PM
Les Robertson
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Circle P Exclusives


Paul,

In the future, do not reference my knives as advertising for yours.

If you want to produce a "cheap" line of exclusives that is your right.

There is nothing "cheap" about the Vanguard knives.


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  #3  
Old 06-25-2001, 08:42 PM
viper5192
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I DIDN'T say CHEAP, I said less expensive! I was only giving them a sort of reference point. Sorry, surely wasn't trying to compare my lowly site to your great knife site
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  #4  
Old 06-26-2001, 01:30 AM
BOB28
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Uh Les? The gentlemen who sell their knives on Viper's sight I think don't consider their knives "cheap". Niether do the people who buy them. I take offense to your words because soon I will be selling my knives through CPK. These are up and coming makers and while the fit and finish "might not" be up to par with the makers on your sight, they have put alot of time, effort and gumption to put their knives up for sale to the general publick (like ALL the makers on your saight have done when they were just beginning). Show a little respect sir, those rude remarks were uncalled for.
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  #5  
Old 06-26-2001, 02:18 PM
Les Robertson
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Misrepresntation of a product line.


Bob and Paul,

I stand corrected you did say less expensive.

My comments were not geared at the makers that Paul represents. They were geared directly at Paul.

Bob, respect is a two way street. I have done enough in custom knives to have earned the same respect you are speaking of.

Bob, would it be ok with you if after 3 1/2 years of R&D, Marketing and spending tens of thousands of dollars, developing a line of knives. Another knife maker came along and
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  #6  
Old 06-26-2001, 03:13 PM
ansoknives
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Re: Misrepresntation of a product line.


Les and Paul!

Please....I respect you both alot! I understand why Les don?t want others to use his brandname in any advertising.....fully understand....I also understood what Paul ment....Vanguard is getting so known in the knifebuisness that I don?t think Paul was refering to the name to get cheap points...just to give an example for people....I can?t see it can hurt.

Please genlemen....don?t get too jumpy in this neigbourghood.....
With that said...please use emails for further discussion on this matter.
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2001, 01:08 AM
BOB28
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Re: Misrepresntation of a product line.


Thank you for the clarification Les. I imagine it did hit a nerve to see viper use your product name like that but he didn't gear it to be negative twords you or those verry knice, let me repeat very nice! knives you have developed. No need to take to e-mail Jens everthing is 5 by 5.
Les you are a true gentleman.
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2001, 10:06 PM
Les Robertson
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Intellectual Property


Jens and Bob,

You have both brought out some excellent points.

As makers you can both appreciate what is becoming known as "intellectual" property. Additionally, Brands, Logo's and Slogans are defended both in the press and the courtroom as they become known to so many people.

I can empathize with Paul. I remember having 14 knives in inventory when I got my first business #######.

Whether a dealer or a maker it is very difficult to make yourself known. It is even more difficult to put yourself in a position that allows you to make a living doing this.

When ever I hear a maker say "I want to be the next so and so" I tell them don't be the next so and so, be the first you!

Paul, you are utilizing an interesting marketing idea, stick with it. The main problem with most successful marketing campaigns. Is that those who create them take the line extention concept to far. There by losing sight of "what brought them to the dance".

LDC Custom Knives is an excellent example of a concept that has not taken line extention to far.

Which I why I created the Vanguard series. Not co compete but to be complimentary to LDC Custom Knives which was known primarly for providing limited edtion custom knife sets to collectors.

The Vanguard series provides limited edition (in most cases even more limited than LDC) but these knives encompass a vast array of styles. Making it all but impossible to find one collector that will want them all.

This series allows you to pick and choose which knives are right for your particular collection. Ill stop the ad here.

Bob and Jens, thanks again.



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  #9  
Old 06-28-2001, 12:33 AM
CKDadmin
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Re: Intellectual Property


I'll say one thing ... then leave it alone.

Les, the name "Vanguard" is absolutely tremendous. Let's see ... if I remember it correctly, it means something like "leading position or foremost position of an army." That's just excellent coinage there ... well conceived.

Paul, I see what your original point was aimed at ... I don't think you meant any harm whatsoever with the zeal in which you presented your line. You're obviously thinking this thing through correctly, if you've concluded that Les' line of Vanguards is the marquee that you want to trigger in someone's mind about your new line. However, a person should really be careful when they refer to someone's trade name or brand in comparison to their own products, especially if they're in direct competition with them in any sense. Les has invested mega-bucks in this product he's produced. It has an industry "brand" that is widely known through heavy marketing expense.

Let's all take a good lesson away from this ...

Think of the day you have finally arrived, where you new line is equal in essence to where this brand is. Then, some savvy whipper-snapper comes in and says "Come see my new line. It's just like the famous Circle-P series from Paul Vandine, but only cheaper!!!"

What say ye ...?

Don't forget ... that day will probably come if you work hard. Alex won't forget your answer here, either. 1000-1 says you react exactly like Les to protect your Brand ...

Want some of that wager?

Have fun and be nice men! We're all professionals!

Alex
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