The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need. |
07-11-2014, 04:04 PM
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Skilled
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Plano Texas
Posts: 498
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I bought some Alabama damascus. .
I'm going to wait to get my oven to H/T it, have any of ya'll worked with it? If so, would you mind sharing how you did it?
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07-11-2014, 04:17 PM
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Founding Member / Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
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I've never used it so somebody else will have to give you the specifics. What I want to do is give you an understanding of HTing damascus so that you can proceed even if there is no one to ask.
The first thing to know is that anybody who sells damascus commercially has a spec sheet on how to heat treat their product. Its free, just ask for it.
If no sheet is available, you have to know what steels were used in making the damascus and in what proportions (roughly). If the damascus is the usual 1084, 15N20 kind of thing then the 1084 is almost sure the largest part of the mix so you HT the damascus exactly as you would plain 1084. That way, at least most of your blade will have the correct HT and the remainder should be very close - this is why we can't just put any two steels together that might be laying around. Try to mix 52100 and 1095 for example and the damascus will possibly tear itself apart during HT or else one part or the other will be far off of its proper heat treatment. The problem only gets worse when more than two steels are mixed. You can only HT one steel optimally, the others have to make do or you have to settle for some overall average that isn't optimal for any of the steels ...
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07-11-2014, 04:37 PM
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Skilled
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Plano Texas
Posts: 498
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I talked to Alabama and they said to treat it like 1084 but to quench in peanut oil, and temper twice at 350 for 1 hour, is this right?
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07-11-2014, 05:12 PM
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I suppose it is right if that's what they said. Hard to even guess at it without knowing what steels are in the damascus and in what proportions.
If the damascus is mostly 1084 then that would be reasonable. The requirement for peanut oil I would ignore in favor of Parks 50 which I think you already have BUT that might not be a good idea if one of the other steels in the damascus has a problem with a fast quench oil.
Anyway, I'm guess you don't have peanut oil and since it is expensive you might just take a scrap of the damascus after you have cut out your blade and test it with whatever oil you do have. Testing like this is always a good idea when you get a new steel of any kind because its the little things that will screw you up ...
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07-11-2014, 07:34 PM
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Skilled
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 554
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I would think it would be a bit chippy at a 350 draw. But like Ray said, we don't know what the ingredients are. I'd do it like they say and test the edge using a brass rod, if it chips up the tempering heat and repeat. (be sure to check with a file after quenching to make sure it hardened).
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07-11-2014, 07:47 PM
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Skilled
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 409
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I had a pamphlet around somewhere that had the steels... (trying to remember)
52100, 5160, 203E, 15N20.
I I do not yet have all the fancy kilns and ovens, but after hardening, (torch evenly to nonmagnetic and oil quench), and usually temper around 400 for an hour.
Last edited by damon; 07-11-2014 at 07:56 PM.
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07-11-2014, 07:58 PM
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According to their HT instructions on their website they suggest 350 F temper but point out that some users don't bother to temper at all. To me, that would seem to be just another way of saying there's an awful lot of relatively soft (unhardenable or low hardening) metal in that mix even though three out of four of those steels are excellent blade steels. The mix seems a bit unconventional but if you test the blade after you make the knife then that will tell the tale good or bad. The problem with damascus knives is no one ever wants to really test one ....
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07-11-2014, 08:09 PM
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Skilled
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers
According to their HT instructions on their website they suggest 350 F temper but point out that some users don't bother to temper at all. To me, that would seem to be just another way of saying there's an awful lot of relatively soft (unhardenable or low hardening) metal in that mix even though three out of four of those steels are excellent blade steels. The mix seems a bit unconventional but if you test the blade after you make the knife then that will tell the tale good or bad. The problem with damascus knives is no one ever wants to really test one ....
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Ray, you have that right about testing. I got embarrassed pretty bad one time because I didn't thoroughly test a Damascus blade. The customer stabbed it into a rock hard piece of desert wood and broke the tip. If I would have done at least a drop test I would have found that it was too hard and needed a little more temper. Thanks to that experience now I keep a piece of oak and give the tip a work over in that stuff.
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07-11-2014, 09:12 PM
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Steel Addict
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
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I have used Alabama Damascus before. I did exactly what you would do for 1084 per the directions given by Lacy Smith the man who makes the damascus. I have made three knives from it and had no problems. I drop test it and had no problem at all. No I have never done the level of testing that many of you do but I have had great results with the knives so far. I am a newbee and have given two of the knives to my son and wife. One was made for a young man who practices the art of Phiillipino knive fighting. He loved it and has had no problems. The edge of the knives were all exceptional and they have held their edges wonderfully. I know this is not scientific testing but the knives have been used and no problems so far.
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07-11-2014, 11:11 PM
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Enthusiast
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Carriere, MS
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I have made several knives from Alabama Damascus. I quench at 1525 and then temper at 400.
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07-12-2014, 07:15 AM
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Steel Addict
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chandler, Oklahoma
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I used 1500 degrees for the quench then tempered at the 350.
One of my friends hog hunted in Argentina with a bowe that worked very well for him. The knife RC 58.
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07-12-2014, 11:00 AM
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Skilled
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Loon Lake Wa
Posts: 374
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I've used alot of it and I quench at 1550 and temper at 400 , rod test and it always comes out great.
One tip : dont buff it , just sand. Buffing seems to muddy the patterns, IDK thats just my experience.
Dwane
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07-12-2014, 11:57 AM
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Skilled
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Plano Texas
Posts: 498
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Thanks for the help guys, I'll wait for my oven to get here and give it a try.
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07-12-2014, 01:51 PM
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Steel Addict
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
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You are very correct about not buffing the steel. You can sand and wet sand it but the buffing does mess up the pattern.
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Tags
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1084, 1095, 5160, 52100, 550, art, blade, brass, damascus, damascus blade, edge, file, heat, heat treat, heat treatment, how to, knife, knives, make, making, problem, rod, sand, steel, temper |
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