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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 09-30-2012, 01:35 PM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
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Need some help with my new grinder

I finally got my grinder up and running-a KMG chassis with a 2 hp motor (mounted under the bench on a shelf) and a KBAC VFD. Somewhat crazy, but I managed to wire everything up and it actually works . The "issue" I'm having is with the tracking... When I used Ed's during the class I took, I think I remember it tracking really well. On mine, I have to adjust it WAY over on the idler wheel to run on the attachment (wheel or flat platen). I figured I could just pull the wheel/platen away from the tool arm (to the right, as you're looking at it) to try and get it more in line with the idler wheel. That only kinda helps-the belt is still a ways off of the idler wheel and the "pin" that goes into the tool arm is about halfway in when doing that. Also, I noticed with a Blaze 50 grit belt that there was a noticeable-small, but noticable amount of side to side wobble while running. I put a Deerfos 120 belt on and it didn't seem to wobble much, if at all. Am I missing something obvious on how I screwed something up? I did take some of it apart to paint it, including the idler wheel. But, I'm darned near certian I put it back together correctly, plus, that wheel looks like it's crowned so even if I put it on backwards, shouldn't matter, right? Here are a few pics with an 8" contact wheel. I moved it back out after the pics to see if it helped much like mentioned earlier. Thanks for any advice.

Jeremy





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  #2  
Old 09-30-2012, 01:47 PM
hsjrev hsjrev is offline
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From the first picture, it almost looks like the idler wheel isn't square to the rest of the machine. Looks like the idler's axle is tilted up a little?
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2012, 02:15 PM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
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Yup, it's a ways out of square... It's tilted up that far to get the belt tracking on the attachment, which is forcing it off the side of the idler wheel. If I bring it back down more level and "normal" on the idler wheel, it's off the side of the attachment.

Jeremy
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2012, 05:04 PM
cdent cdent is offline
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Did it work ok before you painted it. If it did, maybe backtrack and clean it off any surface that used to be metal on metal. The tracking could have been changed at any of the wheels, not just the tracking idler. Also, I don't think the tracking wheel is symetrical, so the off set may change if it was flipped over on reassembly.

If you never had it running before and you're pretty sure it's put together like a KMG is supposed to be, then I'd check if the nonstandard tooling arm was drilled true for the front contact wheel.

Best of luck with it, Craig
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  #5  
Old 09-30-2012, 06:07 PM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions, Craig. I had the chassis before the VFD and never had it running beforehand. I suppose I should clarify about what I took apart: the idler wheel/knob, tool arm tightening knob, spring, handle. The rear bearing/wheel/shaft stayed in place and I just taped over it before painting. I think I'll double check the idler wheel and see if it goes on turned around, maybe I'll get lucky. The tool arm came from Ed, so I'm going to assume it's straight. Thanks for the troubleshooting points.

-Edit- After going out and seeing about moving the idler wheel around and not being able to loosen the bolt easily, I realized I'd never actually removed the wheel itself. I only took out the little bolt that held the block with the wheel attached to it off... I don't see a different way I could put that back on. Hmmmm, maybe I could try the tape trick-wrap some a little off center to see if I can make the belt want to track better?

Jeremy

Last edited by Jeremy; 09-30-2012 at 09:45 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-01-2012, 12:20 AM
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cnccutter cnccutter is offline
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Jeremy, I,d be willing to bet that the drive wheel is out of alinement with the rest of the wheels. when i first built my 2 x 72 i had almost the same exact problem. every wheel has to be running in the same plane or each wheel shoves the belt in a new direction.... hence the belt wobble.

get a straight edge and a level and check the drive wheel with the attachment wheel. they have to be running in the same plane both vertical and horizontal. I'll bet the drive wheel is twisted forward forcing the belt to the right and off the attachment. the tracking wheel has to over compensate in the opposite direction to get the belt back in the middle..

Erik
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  #7  
Old 10-01-2012, 12:52 AM
cdent cdent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
....The tool arm came from Ed...

Hmmm, I think we're on to something here. J/K Ed.

Since you have the same problem with both the contact wheel and your platen, most likely the front end is ok. Still make sure the contact wheel is spaced out about an inch from the tooling arm, same for the platen about a half inch for the plate and another half inch spacer to push the platen wheels about an inch away from the tooling arm.

Since the tracking wheel can tilt, maybe it's ok. Might be something's throwing off the tracking at the back end drive wheel. If there is some wallow in the mounting bolts for the two sets of bearings, see if you can drop the belt pulley bearing and raise the drive wheel side bearing slightly. That should make the belt track towards the machine. Then the tracking wheel won't have to go to such an extreme to steer the belt towards the machine.

I wonder if you got it from someone who just couldn't get it to work right. Might have got dropped by the UPS guy. You can get this one licked. Just thoughts Jeremy, best of luck.

Craig


edit to add, I think Erik above is right about getting all the wheels on the same plane. Just keep in mind, if you're using KMG wheels, they're all a little different width.

Last edited by cdent; 10-01-2012 at 01:08 AM.
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  #8  
Old 10-01-2012, 01:45 AM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
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Well, I'm am idiot... I was laying in bed thinking about this and realized a few things when I looked at each component. I started paying more attention to the exact distance the drive wheel is set away from the frame and then things started falling into place. I thought (naively, this being my first grinder) that each attachment should go into the tool arm and everything should work from there. Obviously, that's pretty ridiculous...

Looking at the flat platen (Ed's design), it's much better than the contact wheel belt alignment. As I sighted down the frame, I wanted to whack myself good and hard. There's a ways more steel between the tool arm and where the belt contacts the wheels for the platen than on the 8" contact wheel-duh. The contact wheel just needs an appropriately sized spacer block with another "pin" to then fit into the tool arm. Man, sometimes I amaze myself with myself...

I'm still unsure about the slight side to side (minimal-MAYBE a 1/16" at most) travel while the belt's going. Maybe that'll take care of itself once I get the spacing right and the idler wheel isn't completely out of whack to get the belt that far over. If it keeps up, I'll take a look at the drivewheel as suggested. Thanks for all your help and sorry to have been an inconvenient noob . Have a great week.

Jeremy

Last edited by Jeremy; 10-01-2012 at 01:49 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-01-2012, 08:37 AM
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J. Doyle J. Doyle is offline
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The slight side to side wobble is likely the belt itself. Sometimes belts, even good ones, will wobble back and forth. Try a different belt and it might not move at all.


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  #10  
Old 10-01-2012, 09:02 AM
tuskbuster tuskbuster is offline
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another tip ,dont leave your belts on the machine while not in use
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  #11  
Old 10-01-2012, 02:32 PM
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fuzzy fuzzy is offline
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Don't give up took me at least a week of evenings to get my homebuilt running straight
all wheels need to be in line in two planes. Close is probable not good enough.
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:58 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Got in late on this thread, but looking at the pics, and seeing only one way to move the idler/tracking wheel in/out, my advice is to line up the others (drive pulley and attachment/platen/contact wheel). I would do this by first moving the drive pulley "outward" on it's shaft, then place a washer/spacer on the "axle" (3/4" pin) to equate to the same space that you moved the drive pulley outward on it's shaft.....of course the idea is to make sure that all three (drive pulley, idler/tracking pulley, and grinding attachment) are all aligned. In some cases, getting everything aligned MIGHT require working the spacing on all three "wheel" areas.

Jeremy, as you know, I have two grinders in the finish shop......I had to do what I described above to the KMG when I first got it and started using the modified tooling arm. On the second grinder (the modified GIB) I had to machine new "axles" for all my attachments that included a 3/4" "spacer". Each grinder MIGHT require a different approach to get all the "wheels" to line up....here are a couple of photo examples....on the KMG I used the spacing on the idler wheel to make things work the way I wanted, and on the Modified GIB, I built in spacers on new axles I machined for the attachments.





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Last edited by Ed Caffrey; 10-02-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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  #13  
Old 10-03-2012, 04:23 AM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
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Thanks everyone for the help and advice, it's much appreciated. Ed, I think I'm going to start with some spacers like you showed, which should get things more in line. Getting closer .

Jeremy
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  #14  
Old 10-03-2012, 11:16 AM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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Ed, how come you are out in your shop taking pictures at 2:51 A.M.?
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  #15  
Old 10-03-2012, 04:22 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Never noticed that Don......although with no more sleep then I get these days, being up at that time wouldn't be out of line.

Actually, I just never adjusted the time on the camera after having batteries out of for a while.


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