Forge Safety IR/UV Glasses..

This came up in another thread, and J Loose suggested that maybe it should be a new thread...
I agree, but don't confuse me with an expert by any stretch of the imagination! But I've done some reading;

In addition to safety from flying objects, safety glasses for use around the forge (gas or coal) need to protect your eyes against Infrared and Ultraviolet light.. both are harmful to your eyeballs.

In the past, Didymium coated glasses were recommended... these glasses got their start in the glassblowers industry. They are lightly violet tinted and have the advantage of allowing you to see the COLOR of your work (important for gaugeing temperature).

However; DIDYMIUM GLASSES DO NOT STOP IR AND UV SUFFICIENTLY!

Didymium glasses DO stop the bright yellow "sodium flare" found in glassblowing (that's why they're useful for glassblowers), and the bright yellow flame from some welding fluxes... bright enough for you to see spots.. So it does have SOME use. But when glassblowers started using Didymium glasses, IR and UV exposure really wasn't known about.

BUT IT DOES NOT HELP keep you from long term damage from UV or IR exposure! Didymium does NOT stop IR and stops less than HALF of UV (less than a good pair of sunglasses would).

UNLESS!!!! If the Didymium glasses are COATED with a thin layer of GOLD, then that stops UV and IR very well!

How do you know if you're getting too much Infrared from your forge? Well.. if your eyes feel gritty and tear a lot.. and you feel your eyes burning or itching for hours after forging.. you are probably hurting yourself badly! Even if you aren't getting symptoms, you may be causing long term damage to your eyes; the first overt symptom I know of (because I have noticed it in myself, and others have mentioned it) is a loss of night vision. I used to be an amatuer astronomer, and nowadays I can't see SQUAT in the sky at night!

My sources of information have been anecdotal from others on other boards, the Blacksmiths Virtual Junkyard page at Keenjunk.com and anvilfire.com.

In particular; Knifemaker Jim Hrisoulas (who recommended Didymium glasses in his books) posted a year or two ago on Keenjunk.com his further resarch that he was WRONG about Didymium glasses, and a storm of discussion followed from which I gleaned most of my info.

One source, who are trying to sell thier protective gold-coated didymium glasses BTW is at www.glassschell.com/eyecare.htm.
They do have a lot of good info!

A filter suitable for Oxy-acetylene welding is also good protection, but limits visibility and may not be terribly safe because of it.

I can't afford the gold-coated didymium glasses (yes, I know.. I can't afford NOT TO either, but money is tight!).

I use an oxy-acetylene flip down face shield (not a full hood, just the tinted face sheild) pulled down halfway.. This way I can look below the tint (through my ever present Safety Glasses!) to work, and lower my head and look through the sheild when looking into my gas forge (which is at chest-height). I have two things on my "shopping list" should I sell one of my "hobby-made" knives for a decent profit; Gold-coated didymium glasses, and higher quality grinding belts. In that order.

RESIST the temptation to stare into the forge.... That's how I learned about IR exposure.. I stared, my eyes burned and teared for a couple hours.. I researched, I was scared...

Anyway, as I said, I am NOT AN EXPERT... Nor do I have any great training or knowledge on this subject, I am primarily parroting other more experienced blacksmiths and knifemakers that have done much more professional research!

I hope some Experts will speak up on this point, as I think it's a VERY important safety issue.. right up there with hearing protection... A cut or slash or minor burn heals. But cumulative damage to one of your senses that lead to significant PERMANENT loss... those DO NOT HEAL!

Paul F.

This ought to be in the urban legends if it isn't. didideum
is for glass blowers.

Get a #2 green glass lense from your weld supplier.

Weldors have been using the green glass for years to protect them from the rays.

Utex brand safety glasses stop 99% of the uv rays in clear. I don't know if they make a #2 green but they do make a #5 which I use when cutting with a torch.

I have a set of #2 green in Crews brand i don't know if there is a difference in protection but I prefer the glass. The glass is more scratch resistant for one thing and am rough on stuff.

I have been a weldor for many years, medically retired 2 yrs ago.

I have used the gold coat lense and do not recommend them. if scratched you lose your protection, and the damage is not visable. The worst case of burnt eyes I ever had (lasted 2 days, most cases overnite) was with a gold lense. Never again.

Save your money go for the green.

Paul- thanks for the info. Looks like more research is in order... Do you have any idea if the junkyard thread is still up? I can't even remember the URl.

Sweany- my understanding... which may be faulty, is that welding glasses do not sufficiently filter IR and have the added complication of being dark, causing the eyes to dilate and receive more IR damage.

Let me know if this ain't true...

Thanks,

-J.Loose

J Loose; The info should still be accessible by the "Search Archive" tool... Search for "Didymium" and you should get some good discussions.
www.keenjunk.com

My perspective after reading arguements over eyewear is this;
Glassblowers and Blacksmiths share some needs.. but not ALL their needs in eyewear.. IR and UV Protection are necessary.
Welders and Blacksmiths also share some needs; But welders need more protection from IR than blacksmiths.. Why? Welders are closer to their (IR emitting) work for longer periods....
A blacksmith is 3-4 feet from the IR source, a welder 2-3 feet.
IR drops off sharply with distance ( IR is absorbed/blocked by the air).
BUT; a gas forge (or glassblowers kiln) emits HELLACIOUSLY more intense IR than an Oxy-acetylene welder does...

The blacksmith also goes from needing the IR/UV filtration to needing to SEE what he's doing.. so does a glassblower. A welder ( I think) needs more protection because a welder is, well.. WELDING. A blacksmith is doing all sorts of things, only some of which expose him to IR/UV.

I agree that having your pupil dilate seems counter-productive.. so any way to block IR/UV without darkening in the visible spectrum sounds better to me... not to mention the visibility aspect. That's why the Didymium SOUNDS like a good solution; they're not DARK.
Sweany's experience with the gold coat being abraded off concerns me; but how do you not notice it? I'm not clear on that... should not the,uh, gold color (or lack thereof) be an indicator if you've screwed up the glasses? What am I missing?

Like I said, I'm so far from a "professional" in any of these fields, that I really hesitate to get involved in this sort of discussion..
Mainly I take safety seriously, and value the opinions of others that have done more serious research.

Paul F.

The Gold lense shows no difference in light quality if it is damaged. These are a plastic lense with a mylar like coating very thin and easily abraded. Green glass is very noticeable if damaged.

Color of the metal is blue in the gold lenses, which is much more difficult to judge in my opinion. Here again this is welding lenses. With the #2 I can see yellow lemon much clearer than with the naked eye.

Gas forges are a lot brighter than coal or charcoal also due to the incadesance of the kaowool.

Welding lenses are designed for protection of the eyes during the weld process which is actually a mini-steel furnace the metal reaches melting temp.

In my case i have used a flux core wire up to 3/32 which puts out enough light and heat to literally rot your carhartt shirt. On ocassion I have been in a position that I was close enough to blister my welding hood from the heat given off by the weld. I use a #12 lense, on that wire. Arm length from the weld is preffered.


Yep a lot of old weldors loose their eyesight over a period of years, I think it is a combination of eye injuries,(very common), burnt eyes, working close with other weldors and use of oxy-acetylene torch with no shaded lenses. and a very unhealthy environment, off the job as well as on.



I did a little searching on the welding sites Lincoln, Miller.

What I have found is very little mention of the fact that the green glass does block the IR, it seems it has been taken for granted so long nobody even thinks about it.

Dilated , we are talking about dididyum to make it easier to see, I have never worn them , but they must have some type of color to them.


If you stare into the forge and see a red or green spot or fog in the eyes after you look away you are doing some damage.

Now the eye repairs it self faster than any organ in the body, usually overnite, course age and llots of damage will tend to slow this process down.

Don't stare into the forge, I usually peek look away, wait a bit and peek again.

www.keenjunk.com/

OK, here comes the newbie, question. When I run my gas forge I only wear my prescription glasses. They are plastic, photogreys. They definitely turn dark when I look at the forge (I checked). But I am wondering just how much protection they give me. Never experienced any of the symptoms you mentioned. Wonder if I'm doing damage and not knowing it?
Excellent question. Thanks for bringing it up.

Your glasses are not helping you at all. And possibly hurting you by darkening and having your eyes opem up more, letting in the bad rays. There are a couple of us investigating this with people who should know and hope to get back to everyone soon. Feel free to investigate also as this is difficult information to find.

I don't know how they react with a forge, but most prescription glasses, including photogreys, have UV coatings, I don't know about IR. I sit in front of a computer all day and have a different coating on my lenses, because of that. My eye doc asked about it and put it into the prescription 10-15% tint and heavy UV coat.

Thank you, gentelmen for making us aware of and schooling us on this subject. You're helping someone avoid eye damage, I'm sure.

I started all of this and I now have more questions than answers. It is frustrating when an eye doctor can't help you out, OSHA won't respond and the foundry companies aren't about to act as eye experts. They would rather have you burn up your eyes than tell you what they know. I even offered to sign a waiver stating that what they told me would not be held against them if they were wrong.

Thanks for starting it, Bob.

We'll get the answer, even if the answer is more caution when working around that fire. Maybe no one really knows, but I'm sure that we'll all work safer because of your concern.

I am not an expert on UV or IR rays by any means guys - But I have been a welder for close to 40 yrs and have learned that if you have something in front of your eyes (even clear glass) it is difficult to get a flash burn. That alone tells me that anything in front of your eyes is better than nothing at all. At a minimum wear safety glasses (you ought to have them on anyway!)

Thanks, Bill. Yes, at least, please wear glasses!

I checked with my eye Doctor to day after haveing new lens put in about 2 years a go . So i checked. He told me dark
gray would do the trick. Wear your Safety Glasses
Troy Brown A.B.S Journey Smith