MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions

Knife Making Discussions A place to discuss issues related to all aspects of the custom knifemaking community.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-14-2002, 09:01 AM
Martyn's Avatar
Martyn Martyn is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England, near Europe.
Posts: 509
steel classification?

Does anyone have a link or reference for the comparative steel classifications between American AISI/SAE numbers and the equivalent British BS numbers?

I'm looking for a complete list of the eqivalents like for 01 tool steel:

American AISI/SAE: 01
British: BS4659: 1971 BO1

I'm wondering if the nomenclature is essentially the same, just with a "B" in front for the equiv. British steel.

Thanks.


__________________
BritishBlades.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-14-2002, 10:57 AM
Martyn's Avatar
Martyn Martyn is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England, near Europe.
Posts: 509
OK, I've found some, and compiled them into a web poage which can be edited and updated. If you see any steels that are not really used by knifemakers, let me know so I can delete it from the table, also if there are common knife steels missed out, then give me a heads up to include them.

It doesn't matter if you cant find the equivalent numbers (there may not be one), but it would be nice

International Steel Classifications:
http://www.synobyte.com/steelstandards.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The British Standard explained......
---------------------------------------------
The BS970 code number is constructed as follows;

a) The first three symbols are a number code indicating the type of steel:

000 to 199 Carbon and carbon-manganese steels. The number represents the manganese content x 100

200 to 240 Free cutting steels. The second and third number indicate the sulphur content x 100

250 Silicon Manganese valve steels

300 to 499 Stainless and heat resisting steels

500 to 999 Alloy Steels



b) The fourth symbol is a letter code .

A The steel is supplied to a chemical compostion determine buy analysis of the batch sample.

H The steel is supplied to a hardenability specification

M The steel is supplied to a Mechanical Property specification.

S The steel is a stainless steel



c) The fifth and sixth symbol is a number is the actual mean carbon content x 100


In addition to the above coding a condition coding may be applied. indicating the tensile strength range after heat treatment. This is used in conjunction with a limiting section designation.

e.g. BS970-420S45 can be seen as:

420 (Stainless and heat resisting steels)
S (The steel is a stainless steel)
45 (mean carbon content x 100 = 0.45%)


__________________
BritishBlades.com

Last edited by Martyn; 07-14-2002 at 11:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2002, 11:18 AM
Roger Gregory's Avatar
Roger Gregory Roger Gregory is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England
Posts: 1,053
Martyn, you're a little gem Nice work, very useful indeed.

Roger


__________________
http://www.vikingdesign.co.uk
Retro-industrial and neo-tribal metalsmithing
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2002, 11:34 AM
Martyn's Avatar
Martyn Martyn is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England, near Europe.
Posts: 509


At the moment, I've just put any steel I could find in there, but over time I hope to refine it to just the steels we're interested in.

Sheffield still produces some of the finest quality controlled steel in the world if we believe the hype, it's on our doorstep, so I figured it would be nice to have the numbers.

I'm still trying to find the equive for such as 1080, 1095, 52100 etc...

If you find tthe BS970 numbers please let me know.


__________________
BritishBlades.com

Last edited by Martyn; 07-14-2002 at 11:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2002, 11:37 AM
Roger Gregory's Avatar
Roger Gregory Roger Gregory is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England
Posts: 1,053
I have a bar of O1 in front of me. This is what the label says:

Speccification Type
BS4659 BO1 AISI O1
Werkstoff 1.2510

Looks like Firth Rixon Special Steels agree with Martyn

Roger


__________________
http://www.vikingdesign.co.uk
Retro-industrial and neo-tribal metalsmithing
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2002, 11:50 AM
Martyn's Avatar
Martyn Martyn is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England, near Europe.
Posts: 509


It should be noted, that I came accross a load of BS970-EN numbers, which are the old (obsolete) nubers but are still used a lot. Apparently, the BS970-EN system was re-classified after the war and the numbers all changed, so there may be some references to "EN" numbers which although are current steels, aren't on that chart.


__________________
BritishBlades.com

Last edited by Martyn; 07-14-2002 at 12:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-14-2002, 11:53 AM
Martyn's Avatar
Martyn Martyn is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England, near Europe.
Posts: 509
sticky?


__________________
BritishBlades.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-14-2002, 11:58 AM
Roger Gregory's Avatar
Roger Gregory Roger Gregory is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England
Posts: 1,053
Very

Roger


__________________
http://www.vikingdesign.co.uk
Retro-industrial and neo-tribal metalsmithing
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-14-2002, 04:10 PM
Colin KC's Avatar
Colin KC Colin KC is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kent, Europe
Posts: 775
Yah,
Good one Martyn.

It should be poss to extrapolate BS# of american equivalent by the very formulae you suggested, shouldn't it?

Or am I not getting it?


__________________
colin@britishblades.com
  • NT Freak'n Cow McIver
  • Knock, Knock
  • Who's There?
  • Cowsgo
  • Cowsgo Who?
  • NO, Cows Go Moo!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-14-2002, 05:44 PM
Martyn's Avatar
Martyn Martyn is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England, near Europe.
Posts: 509
yeah, it should (I think), but I copied that from somewhere and I'm not sure if it applies through all the steels. I mean, you cab work properties out from the BS#, but I'm not sure if it's reversible. Like "01" becomes "B01".

I've found some which give the old BS-EN numbers...

SAE: 52100 = BS970: EN31

and the 10 series spring steels are EN: 43,45,45A,
42,44,47

What I need to find out is what their new BS970 numbers are.


__________________
BritishBlades.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-27-2002, 03:38 PM
acs1943 acs1943 is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kent England
Posts: 37
I don't know if this is paret of this thread but I have a small paperback that I got from SEco/warwick
Called Heat treating data book
it has a lot of stell Specifications in it.
You could get one for free from there web site

www.secowarwick.com
and
info@secowarwick.com

may help someone

reggards

Alan
still crazy after all these years
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-09-2002, 04:24 PM
Mick Maxen Mick Maxen is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Herts , England
Posts: 33
BS970 steel No's

Martyn, EN45 is 251A58, EN43 is 080A52 and EN42 is 070A78, these are spring steels. One carbon steel I know is EN9 which is 070M52. This information has come from a book by The British Iron and Steel Producers Association (BISPA), called Iron and Steel Specifications. They are at 5 Cromwell Street, London, SW7 2HX. The book has about 200 pages of steels and their specs with some cross reference to the American standards, AISI and ASTM. The copy I have is dated 1994.
All the best, Mick.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-09-2002, 05:39 PM
Mick Maxen Mick Maxen is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Herts , England
Posts: 33
52100

In the States the main source of 52100 is from ball bearings, large ones, I havn't found any big enough to forge out, but you can use the outer shell of a bearing, the bit the balls run on. By the nature of what it does its a good bit of steel. One of the sharpest knives I have made was from one of these, about 6" in diameter. I used it at an ABS School Hammer-in cutting competition back in 99 and it did everything you would expect from a well forged knife. I came 3rd in the contest. Have a look at knifeart.com, click on knife articles and then click on 99 ABS Fall Hammer-in.
Mick.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-12-2002, 12:38 PM
Roger Gregory's Avatar
Roger Gregory Roger Gregory is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: England
Posts: 1,053
Good to have you on board Mick. That BISPA handbook would be a very good thing to have. It is also available on CD-ROM now but it still costs a few hundred quid I think.

Roger


__________________
http://www.vikingdesign.co.uk
Retro-industrial and neo-tribal metalsmithing
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-12-2002, 04:09 PM
Mick Maxen Mick Maxen is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Herts , England
Posts: 33
Steel classification

Roger, the BISPA book was about ?25 - 30 when I got a copy, if there is anything in particular you want to know, e-mail me and I'll have a look.
All the best, Mick.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, forge, knife, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved