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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 09-14-2013, 05:45 PM
irishknifeworks irishknifeworks is offline
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Can you heat 5160 in a forge?

Can I 5160 in a forge? If so how?
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2013, 05:58 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Yes, you can heat 5160 in a forge to heat treat. It will normalize just like any other simpler blade steel. To austinize prior to hardening I would heat it to about 1500? and hold for about 2-3 minutes and then quench in warm vegetable oil. It's a hypoeuticoid steel so grain growth is not as much of a problem and it doesn't have enough carbon in it to form excess retained austinite.

To temper I would soak at 375? for two 2 hour cycles then test the edge and adjust the process as needed.

If this is a new steel for you, and it sounds like that it is, I recommend that you make your first blade a test knife and test it to destruction to get a good feel for the, hardness, edge retention, strength, toughness, and grain structure.

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Old 09-14-2013, 06:52 PM
irishknifeworks irishknifeworks is offline
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Thanks. A very old indian man told me how to do this. But I don'if know if it is is the right method. What do you think.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:17 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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How would we know - you didn't tell us the method. Even without knowing the details, my advice would be to pay close attention to the method Doug just explained. I've read some old books containing the wisdom of blacksmith's from the turn of the last century. Some of them knew what they were doing but most were just as much in the dark as the legendary Japanese sword makers. Sometimes what they did worked great but they had no idea why. Doug just told you the how and the why for 5160. What he said isn't ancient guesswork, it's modern metallurgy. Guess which one is more likely to give you good, repeatable results?


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Old 09-14-2013, 07:21 PM
Imakethings Imakethings is offline
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Hey, go take a look at:

http://www.caffreyknives.net/js_test_blade_art.html

After you've read that article from start to finish, remember this: Never forge 5160 or any knife steel below a medium-low cherry red.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:29 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Be aware that those are Ed's advice concerning passing the ABS performance test with 5160. He did not mean them to be a guide to the way to heat treat that alloy for any other purpose. Heat treating can vary according to the purpose of the knife and, to a certain extent, the equipment used to do the heat treating. There is also the makers philosophy behind his or her knife making. Some don't like a pearetic or soft martensetic spine. They would rather have the strength instead of the toughness.

Doug


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Old 09-15-2013, 06:59 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Doug and Ray are spot on.
No telling how many heated discussions some of us have avoided by just not responding to what "the old smiths" have written or said. Proof is in the end product and extensive testing as suggested. While I truly honor and respect old wisdom and experience, as they worked within their realm of knowledge and capabilities, science has improved in metalurgy. You can produce higher quality, better product through it's use.

>>>Never forge 5160 or any knife steel below a medium-low cherry red.<<<
Should be posted on every forge and anvil!! Not only bad for the steel, but as the metal cools and hardens you can wreck the face of your anvil and hammers.

Note: Not all auto/truck springs are 5160, most of the newer mfgr. stuff isn't even close. Unless you are experienced and well versed in discernment of metals through testing you are shooting in the dark on what your results will be. If you just want to have fun beating hot steel then go ahead and use the mystery metals, if you want to produce consistent quality, dependable blades then study-up.


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Old 09-15-2013, 03:14 PM
Imakethings Imakethings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
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Doug
I'm well aware that that article in question is just one smith's advice and suggestions on dealing with 5160. However I like it as a good practical introduction to some of the complexities of forging a knife and a good bit of the vocabulary associated with it.
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