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The Newbies Arena New to Knife Making? Here's all the help you need ...

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  #16  
Old 02-27-2017, 03:25 PM
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The JB just seals the guard from water, same as soldering would do. After that, the handle is filled with glue and pinned just as you always do. Most people can't get a guard fitted with no gap but even if the gap isn't visible moisture might still get through it. I look at it this way: if there is no gap that's great and I'll use JB anyway, you just won't get to see any of it ....


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  #17  
Old 02-27-2017, 05:36 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Oh I understand Ray, it's why I use epoxy behind the guard and fill the hole in the handle with it. I just never to bother to solder or JB Weld a guard up against a shoulder.

Wait until I finish the guard on another oyster shucker, you will go "how did he do that?"
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2017, 07:49 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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But more important is Justin how are you doing trying to get those scratches off your guard?
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  #19  
Old 02-27-2017, 07:59 PM
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Naturally, when you put epoxy inside the handle, as I think most of us do, it fills in any gap that might be on the back side of the guard. Problem with that is that if your guard isn't very closely fitted the epoxy can ooze through the front of the guard. Having the JB in there prevents that. I have no doubt your guards are fitted well enough that you never have that happen but mine usually don't fit quite that well and I feel pretty sure most of the guys on the Newbies Forum could easily have that issue as well ....


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  #20  
Old 02-28-2017, 07:11 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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if I get to impatient and there ends up being a gap between the tang and the guard. I have taken a note from Japanese swords and put a little thin spacer right infront of the guard. I find it easier to file so its tight then the guard itself. I make it out of a thin sheet of brass copper or g10 spacer material. Jim I think the knife I sent you has it on there
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  #21  
Old 02-28-2017, 08:22 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
I never use JB Weld for a slip on guard with a hidden tang anyway. I pin the handle in behind it or have a screw on pommel and filled with epoxy. Only for brass slotted guards that are pinned anyway and there are no gaps in front anyway. Rarely do a bolster unless part of a finger guard same for hilts or quillons or whatever you call them, memory's going.
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Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
Oh I understand Ray, it's why I use epoxy behind the guard and fill the hole in the handle with it. I just never to bother to solder or JB Weld a guard up against a shoulder.

Wait until I finish the guard on another oyster shucker, you will go "how did he do that?"
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Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Naturally, when you put epoxy inside the handle, as I think most of us do, it fills in any gap that might be on the back side of the guard. Problem with that is that if your guard isn't very closely fitted the epoxy can ooze through the front of the guard. Having the JB in there prevents that. I have no doubt your guards are fitted well enough that you never have that happen but mine usually don't fit quite that well and I feel pretty sure most of the guys on the Newbies Forum could easily have that issue as well ....

I thought the solder, or JB Weld was used, not so much to hold the guard on, but to fill any gaps but even more importantly,(at least for my eye) for aesthetics to put a nice fillet between guard and blade. No matter how tight fitting, I cannot envision a joint so tight as to not still see a definitive seam. The solder or JB Weld fills that seam. But I'm visually obsessive compulsive in my work. Small details like that can make or break.

So Jim, I'd love to see a picture of your transition from guard to blade.


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  #22  
Old 02-28-2017, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE: to put a nice fillet between guard and blade.

Yup, it certainly does that too as long as you get pretty close to that 10 minute rule of thumb........


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  #23  
Old 02-28-2017, 09:18 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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When fitting a slip on guard I finish it by filing it. I do not understand the problem. I file the hole until it barely fits and pound it down the rest of the way.

Remember I was a precision sheet metal mechanic and sometimes worked with parts with less than .003 tolerances. One time I had to do parts with no tolerances, it was in defense aerospace. How much do you think that cost the taxpayer? Does anyone here know what a MX Missile is?
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  #24  
Old 02-28-2017, 09:40 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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I have seen pics of that missle before on tv...if I remember right it had another name for it to. and I think it held multiple warheads (not sure how many tho)
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  #25  
Old 02-28-2017, 09:52 AM
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Jim,

It might be more appropriate for you to remember that we're trying to instruct a group of hobbyist knife makers who do not have a history of working with .003 tolerances by hand on anything. Many scarcely have experience using hand tools, period. Maybe I'm more sensitive to this type of thing because I had never even tapped a threaded hole in sheet metal until I was 40 years old. If, as you say, you do not understand the problem, then you might try to think back to a time before you got your training and adjust to the scale of the problem of teaching raw noobs. Don't try to teach tensor calculus to third graders who haven't yet seen long division.

As for MX missiles, we probably won't be building any. Let's focus on cutlery...


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  #26  
Old 02-28-2017, 10:10 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Hey ray speak for your self I am building a missile in my back yard......I plan on destroying the local DMV lol
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  #27  
Old 02-28-2017, 10:34 AM
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I've heard about your driving. You don't need a missle...


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  #28  
Old 02-28-2017, 11:11 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Ray, you got me. Sorry. Some of my work skills transfer directly to making knives like HT machine parts. Sorry. My mistake as I can make a very tight seal with a guard and am disappointed if I'm one or two thousandths off. I have measuring tools to check where I am. They are now cheaper though. Buy for less than $20 what I paid +$100 in 1978. Still a pair of $20 calipers will be very helpful in fitting up.

An MX missile is a mobile missile launcher that can be moved around. Each missile holds 10 MIRVs and can hit hit targets on the other side of the world within 50 feet and no GPS nsats needed. Indeed I helped build the first GPS satellites. Military of course. Not sure how many MX there are but at least 100, or 1000 warheads. Built the Trident missiles too. At least 3 warheads each. Am very very pleased my work has not been used.
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  #29  
Old 03-01-2017, 08:38 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
When fitting a slip on guard I finish it by filing it. I do not understand the problem. I file the hole until it barely fits and pound it down the rest of the way.

Remember I was a precision sheet metal mechanic and sometimes worked with parts with less than .003 tolerances. One time I had to do parts with no tolerances, it was in defense aerospace. How much do you think that cost the taxpayer? Does anyone here know what a MX Missile is?

There is no "problem" per se. MY only point was the nice little fillet formed with the JB Weld or solder, is visually appealing to me in that it hides the sharp seam between the guard and blade. No matter how tightly it fits, *there is still a seam there.
As far as tolerances, because of 30 years of working with small parts and fabricating in precious metals, I can hand file with pretty much a gap-less fit, and without the use of calipers. You just go until it fits, nibble away a little at a time. No need to measure, when you're there you're there. Granted, I have little experience with hidden tang designs and I've never "pounded it on" with a hammer...which, if it were a tight fit to start with would certainly make it tighter. But even without gaps, there is still a seam there that looks nicer with a fillet of some sort IMO. A nice side effect is it hides minute gaps that are inevitable for most people when doing anything by hand AND seals against moisture.

That was my only point. Forgetting all other advantages, *visually it just looks better to me.

* I make that statement having never seen one of your fits and that's why I asked to see a photo.


PS I don't know anything about missiles but may go to NY and visit dtec to see his backyard, anti-DMV version.


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  #30  
Old 03-01-2017, 08:47 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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My camera is charging I will post a pic of a knife where I have taken a bit from a Japanese knife and put a spacer in front of the guard if done right its easier to get less of a gap and it also adds visual appeal in itself....ill post some pics in a hour just letting the camera charge.

Ray I wasn't planning on riding the missle.....now thinking about it I am not sure if it would be better to send it do the dmv or the social security office.....If I was going to ride it there I might have to put the breathalyzer thing on it that's in my car....that way I cant do it drunk LOL
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