MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena New to Knife Making? Here's all the help you need ...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-25-2017, 05:13 PM
Russ W. Russ W. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Suwanee, GA
Posts: 19
Finish prior to heat treat and after process

Doing my second knife, graduated to 1084 from lawnmower blades. Finished knife to 400 grit satin and then heat treated. Brought to non magnetic and two trips to the oven at 450 for an hour each. Was excited to remove the tarnish and get my blade looking good again. Start to take off scale with 400 grit couldn't move it. Moved to 220 grit barely moved it. Moved to 150 grit and one and half hours later back to 150 grit satin. Holy guacamole there must be an easier way. Any suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-25-2017, 06:56 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,525
Well, I just do all my grinding after the heat treat is finished and that saves me a lot of trouble. But, you didn't say you have a grinder so I'm guessing you may be doing this by hand.

No point in finishing to 400 grit before HT as you've already discovered. There are some anti-scaling compounds you could put on your blade to prevent some of the scale. Finishing to 220 is about as far as I'd go before HT. After that, using fresh belts or fresh sandpaper or whatever it is you're using and backing up one grit to, say, 120 grit is where you would start your finish work. If you are doing this by hand then, yes, it is difficult but it can be done. That's where you are until you're ready to buy a good grinder ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-25-2017, 11:55 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,472
You could try pickling the blade in white vinegar overnight to eat the scale and then scrub with a wire brush before returning to sanding.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-26-2017, 07:31 AM
Russ W. Russ W. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Suwanee, GA
Posts: 19
Thanks. 220 makes sense. Then grind off at 120 (I have a ####ty little 1x30 Thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-26-2017, 07:34 AM
Crex's Avatar
Crex Crex is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Acworth, GA and/or Hanging Dog, NC
Posts: 3,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
You could try pickling the blade in white vinegar overnight to eat the scale and then scrub with a wire brush before returning to sanding.

Doug
This! Lot cheaper than belts and a lot easier. Just use a glass container, put a spot lamp next to it to heat it up, and oh yes....set the container in a plastic or glass pan (sometimes the process will foam up and overflow a little. Just check it after a couple to 4 hrs, but just let it work and it will soften that scale right up.
Note: Don't plunk the blade into the container, set in gently or you'll knock the bottom out of the jar (don't ask how I know this). I have a disc of rubber matting in the bottom of my jar just encase one slips. Also, if you have longer blades, those tall spaghetti jars work really well and have a screw on cap for when you are not using.

?? - you didn't mention a hardening quench after reaching critical temp, before tempering. Hope that's just a typo.


__________________
Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith
Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member
Knifemakers Guild, voting member
Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts
C Rex Custom Knives

Blade Show Table 5-J
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-26-2017, 08:11 AM
Russ W. Russ W. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Suwanee, GA
Posts: 19
I brought it to non magnetic in a charcoal make shift forge and quenched in vegetable oil Also the information on tempering 1084 is all over the place. It seems many temper at 350 to 400 degrees. The one official looking chart showed you have to do 500 degrees to get to 59 rc
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-26-2017, 09:27 AM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,525
Tempering a carbon steel at 500F or just above can create embrittlement, or so I've read. You use different tempers to achieve different results which is why various sources may quote different temperatures but 500 is too much. Try about 400 - 425 ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-27-2017, 05:36 AM
Crex's Avatar
Crex Crex is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Acworth, GA and/or Hanging Dog, NC
Posts: 3,336
Agree with Ray. Best thing to do - make it a learning experience. Draw temper at 350 then test the edge (will most likely be too hard if you got the quench right), re-temper at 375 and re-test, then again 25 deg higher until you get the performance you want. Worrying about actual RC hardness is a waste of time until you start getting the results you want .... then it's just a number for techno's to banter about.
Bottom line is if a knife performs as designed then it is right, otherwise just a crummy poorly designed screwdriver.
Note: Tempering temps is also subject to what you use to do the tempering and how you go about it.


__________________
Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith
Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member
Knifemakers Guild, voting member
Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts
C Rex Custom Knives

Blade Show Table 5-J
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1084, art, back, belts, blade, blades, buy, carbon, degrees, finish, forge, grind, grinder, grinding, hand, heat, heat treat, knife, make, plastic, quenched, sanding, scale, steel, white


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts/opinions on Blade finish prior to heat treating reefera4m The Newbies Arena 11 01-20-2010 09:15 AM
Question about pre-heat treat finish JLaw The Newbies Arena 5 08-26-2009 09:01 AM
Stainless heat treat: I need a complete process Bob Warner Heat Treating and Metallurgy 32 09-14-2006 09:28 PM
final finish after heat treat bgmills The Newbies Arena 6 11-27-2002 11:59 AM
ATS-34 thickness prior to heat treat? William The Newbies Arena 3 06-06-2002 07:48 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
CKK Industries, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved