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  #1  
Old 02-27-2017, 07:26 AM
nflknives nflknives is offline
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first attempt at brass guard didnt go well...

Yall have been very good at giving me knowdledge and being patient with me so i am turning to you all once again!

I did my first attemp at a brass guard this weekend, the front against the blade turned out great, however when i soldered it the flux ran through to the back side against the handle and i when i sanded it off i can not get the scratches out no matter what i do. I have went all the way up to 600 grit sandpaper and even back down to 120 and started over going up to 800 again and it just gets worse.
It is an oval guard so it is not sanded down to the handle, it has about 1/4" all the way around the handle.

What can i do to get the scratches out? Will rubbing compound and a polish wheel do it?
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2017, 08:45 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I feel your pain. There is probably nothing you can do that will get all the scratches out. A lot of painstaking sanding with fine sandpaper wrapped around something flat for a lot of hours might get you close. Buffers and compounds might get the scratches out (not likely) but you will end up with a wavy surface if they do.

The best I can tell you is next time don't use solder. There are some guys who have mastered solder and have earned our respect. For the rest of us JB Weld is a much better and far easier approach. Clean, neat, no flux, and just as strong as it needs to be. There is a technique to using JB Weld but it is much easier to master than soldering ...


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Old 02-27-2017, 08:48 AM
nflknives nflknives is offline
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can you give me more info on this jb weld technique please??
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:50 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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You said the front of the guard is ok, but the handle has solder on it? Handle or blade Justin?
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:55 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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I am also not understanding that your oval guard doesn't go all the way down to the handle but there is a 1/4" space all around it? Is this a guard with a curve all the way around going back to the handle? A pic would be nice if you have a link to what you are talking about.

Last edited by jimmontg; 02-27-2017 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:58 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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Photo's would be of greater help than descriptions alone.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:06 AM
nflknives nflknives is offline
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sorry, i did not take a picture and i dont have the knife with me. The guard in front of the antler handle between the blade and handle is an oval, with about 1/4 inch wider than the handle all the way around. the flux ran down to towards the hidden tang and spread out on the guard tarnishing it so i had to try and sand it off...and i used very minimal flux. So the drawing is pitiful bu the black would be the guard and the red would be the antler handle thats attached looking from the back side (handle to blade), and the part between the red and black line is where the scratches are.
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  #8  
Old 02-27-2017, 10:46 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Then like Ray said, you'll have to hand sand, but use a sharpened piece with the sandpaper to sand away from the center. No back and forth, move away from center and you will not cause new scratches when you move back towards it. Is it all brass?

As for JB Weld, you buy the original from an auto parts store and also the solvent they say to remove excess (acetone). Put the jbw on the side where it is to be glued and clean prior with solvent. Make sure the knife is clamped pointed up where the JBW cannot run out onto the blade or face of the guard. Put the glue where you want it and wipe all excess off where you do not want it. If you need to clamp the guard down you'll need some small bar clamps and put it in a vise. For a guard against the handle I use a piece of wood and clamp the point of the knife on hard side of clamp and the turning part against the hilt. I ground and glued one just for hidden tang knives.

Come back the next day, but check it after glue every so often and make sure no glue oozes out, if it does wipe it off with solvent, check handle too. It sets-up in like 30 mins but can still ooze for an hour or so, takes overnight to harden. It is grey in color, if there are gaps to fill they will be grey.

Last edited by jimmontg; 02-27-2017 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:56 AM
damon damon is offline
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sounds like we're going to need pics of the actual knife/problem area.
I solder on guards. brass and stainless.... usually they are mostly finished before doing so because the face and back of the guard are more difficult to work on after soldering.

as ray suggested.... use sticks and sand paper. work in alternating directions from grit to grit. also small circles (like polishing a boot) by switching directions of sanding every now and then youll be able to see any deeper scratches.

another useful tool is a burnisher. you can make one by shaping (tapered point slightly rounded on one side, and more round on the other) and polishing a piece of steel then harden it. then polish it to the best mirror polish you can. by rubbing this in a crosshatching pattern over the scratches. this is essentially pushing metal into the scratch.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:57 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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I agree pics would help. But I have done some knives with gaurds and I tried solder once a very long time ago and never did it again. If its a hidden tang simply first make the hole in the brass small so the tang wont fit through it then file it bigger going slow so it fits somewhat tightly. This has always been a problem for me I am impatient But if its some what tight I do the handle next and when you make the hole for the pin in the handle. Make sure that pin holds the handle material forward very tightly then when you epoxy everything together the handle material (and some epoxy that gets in there will hold it tight up agents the shoulders of the blade and all of mine none have ever come loose. One technique Ray taught me to keep everything tight is to cut a piece of thin spacer material for in between the guard and handle material. But when you drill the hole in the handle material and the tang....do NOT put the spacer on just the handle material straight up agents the guard drill the hole through the tang. Then when you assemble everything to glue up then put the spacer between the handle material and the guard. The spacer is just thick enough to slightly off set the hole in the handle material and the tang so when you glue everything the pin should now be tight enough that you will have to tap the pin through with a hammer but now everything is held very tightly forward up to the shoulders of the knife....this is how I do it and its worked evrytime
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  #11  
Old 02-27-2017, 11:31 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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JB Weld is easy. Mix the JB weld and as soon as the mixing is finished look at your clock. You have 10 minutes exactly to get the job done.

Put a heavy line of JB Weld around the tang just in front of where the guard will sit. Slide the guard on pushing the JB in front up to the guard's final position. Wipe off the excess JB on the HANDLE side of the guard only and put the handle on and pin it in place. The handle is on temporarily just to hold the guard while the JB sets up.

In front of the guard there should now be a heavy bead of JB all the way around the guard's slot - don't touch it. Watch your clock for exactly 10 minutes from the time the mixing was finished.

After 10 minutes take a DAMP, not wet, paper towel and start cleaning up the heavy bead in front of the guard. You should be able to wipe it off so that it is even with the front face of the guard. If you wipe it too soon the towel can pull the JB out of the guard, too late and it can be hard to remove and, again, it can pull out. But, at 10 minutes its like working with a tiny bit of soft clay and cleans easily with water.

Leave the knife sit for a day until the JB sets. Then remove the handle and continue as you normally would....


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Old 02-27-2017, 11:37 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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If the guard is brass, then getting the scratches out should be easy, it is soft Justin.
What was confusing was a pic of the back of the guard. Is there no shoulder for the guard to go against on the blade Justin? If there is you didn't need the solder.

Ray, what JB Weld are you using, mine says 20-30 min setup time?

Last edited by jimmontg; 02-27-2017 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:47 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Jim, yes, it sets in 20-30 minutes but at 10 minutes it has about the right consistency for the clean up. Leaving it over night to set is just safety margin because if the guards moves after the handle is removed you're screwed ...


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Old 02-27-2017, 11:54 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Nevermind Ray, just looked, it depends on what you're using to clean it off with and total setup is 3-4 hours.

Handwritten instructions from someone else. Takes overnight to harden completely.

Last edited by jimmontg; 02-27-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-27-2017, 12:05 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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I never use JB Weld for a slip on guard with a hidden tang anyway. I pin the handle in behind it or have a screw on pommel and filled with epoxy. Only for brass slotted guards that are pinned anyway and there are no gaps in front anyway. Rarely do a bolster unless part of a finger guard same for hilts or quillons or whatever you call them, memory's going.
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antler, back, bee, blade, brass, building, clean, fixed blade, flat, guard, guards, handle, hidden, knife, knives, photo, polish, press, sand, sanding, satin finish, solder, surface, tang, weld


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