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The Newbies Arena New to Knife Making? Here's all the help you need ...

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  #196  
Old 05-26-2007, 02:30 PM
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Drac Drac is offline
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I will admit that around here there isn't as much call for this definition except maybe in the Historical Forum, but outside of here there is a large group of people that do go for this. Mountain Man, Civil War, Revolutionary War and other Reenactors do dive deeply into this style. I just traded one of my knives for a knapped Brazilian agate blade on a whitetail shed. The gentleman does a lot for Mountain Man groups.

Jim


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  #197  
Old 06-14-2007, 04:37 PM
lordharley lordharley is offline
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definitions

Guys
i am a newbie...i have only done one knife kit and it was for my wife. My question is as far as putting together the knife kits and these will not be sold just give to friends and family the only thing i will be some file work and maybe some minor modifications...so my questioins is....what is it called that i am doing...i know i am not making the knife and i not forging the knife...is it that i am just the middle man...you know kinda like made in Japan...stamp them put together in Mississippi.

thanks

Ben
  #198  
Old 06-14-2007, 06:29 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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You're assembling a kit knife and it sounds like you're planning to embellish it also. Many makers started exactly that same way....


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  #199  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:10 AM
Wade Holloway Wade Holloway is offline
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I have a few questions here. I have followed this thread since the beginning and watched it as it developed. It is very hard to get a definition that encomposses everything that everyone wants. With that being said I wanted to make a couple of comments. Trying to make a two part definition with the deciding factor being power tools or no power tools and no computers was very interesting. I understand the belief that using some automated machine takes away from it being done by a person, but I was wondering if people 100 years ago thought the same thing when power saws were starting to be used. I could imagine some of the same type of conversations being discussed. Something like how can it be hand made when you used a power saw to cut the blade out. Kinda like now, how can the blade be hand made when you used a laser to cut the blade out and not a saw. Writing is not one of my best attributes so I hope you were able to figure out what I was trying to say. To me it takes just as much skill to get the design of a knife you want out of your head and into a computer as it does to get it out of your head onto a piece of steel to be cut out by a hacksaw or band saw, but that is a whole different arguement. I do complement you guys for trying to tackle this project and do such a good job with all of you unharmed in the process. Best of luck to you all.
  #200  
Old 09-19-2007, 10:25 AM
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NJStricker NJStricker is offline
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A big difference between 100 years ago and now is that people did not collect knives then the way they do now. To a modern collector, the difference between a "sole authorship knife" and "handmade knife" and a "semiproduction" or "production" knife can be huge.

100 years ago knives were almost exclusively tools. You either bought a tool (knife) that was made in the big city with modern equipment, or you bought it locally made by a blacksmith. There wasn't that big of a distinction. Then, to pay thousands of dollars for a knife just because it had certain materials and had someone's name on it was unheard of. Really, that development has only arisen in the last 30 years or so.

Because of the disparity in how knives are made, and who uses/collects them, definitions are needed.
  #201  
Old 09-19-2007, 11:28 AM
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Alan L Alan L is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armory414
100 years ago knives were almost exclusively tools. You either bought a tool (knife) that was made in the big city with modern equipment, or you bought it locally made by a blacksmith. There wasn't that big of a distinction. Then, to pay thousands of dollars for a knife just because it had certain materials and had someone's name on it was unheard of. Really, that development has only arisen in the last 30 years or so.
That being the case, I submit no definitions are needed at all. All the collector cares about is whose name is on the blade. WE (the makers) seem to be the only ones who really care exactly how it was done.

Collectors will always want to know up to a point, since they like buzzwords and "secret" techniques and processes, but come on, you can't really call a Randall knife handmade anymore by these definitions but that hasn't dampened the market, has it?


I'm not trying to be argumentative, that's just my opinion.

I submit the following terminology: Factory knife, Kit knife, custom production knife (i.e. Randall etc.), and handmade knife. So there!
  #202  
Old 09-23-2007, 11:10 PM
Michael Atkins Michael Atkins is offline
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A few toughts:

Custom: this term should reflect the relation from one knife to one individual, if I see the title custom knifemaker I expect to be able to order a knife into which I have some input, a knife made to satisfy some personal need, just like a custom taylor or bespoke shoemaker, I'd be rather pissed if I entered one their shop asked for a suit or shoes and be handed a product off the rack. Just because you made it by hand does not mean it's custom. Custom means it's uniquely apropriate for one specific and known individual's need and desire at the time of conception and construction and that individual is the intended recipient of the object.

Hand made/ Hand crafted: the important thing is, I think, that the method of construction alows the skill of the maker to show in the finished product any method that alows this should be included (that is any method that allows errors and prohibits automated reproduction) regardless of its technological advancement.

I like the sole authorship definition but would not exclude mosaic pins.

I like unplugged for hand tools only knife making.

My two cents now worth as much as yours.
  #203  
Old 09-24-2007, 08:24 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Wade,

You are correct, IMO, that it takes just as much skill to use a computer to design and cut out a blade as it does to do it by hand (with or without a power saw). The problem is that using a computer is a vastly different skill. Keeping the accounting records for a business can be done by hand in ledgers or it can be done on a computer. Just because you may be able to do it on a computer does not necessarily mean you have the skill to do it with ledgers. Of course, you get to choose how you make knives but in my mind using computers misses the whole point of what we're about in these forums.

Alan L,

That we don't need any definitions was advanced early on, and quite strongly too. Perhaps computer programming, plumbing, electricians, and snipers don't need definitions either but they have them. We have them too, but they were loose and unfocused. We tried to tighten up that situation and were fairly successful, I think.

Michael Atkins,

Personally, I couldn't agree more on your definition of Custom and said so at the beginning of this project. Eventually, the consensus was that the proper English definition of 'custom' didn't adequately cover the traditional usage in the world of knife making. Since our goal wasn't to re-define these terms but simply to formalize them we could not ignore the way the term has been used over the last 30 years. We moved mountains getting to these definitions (they are the result of many arguments and deliberations). Use them or not as you choose but they are deeper and more thorough and more well thought out than they may at first appear. But, nothing is perfect.

I really like 'unplugged' ...


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  #204  
Old 01-31-2009, 02:00 PM
Uncle Buck Uncle Buck is offline
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Haven't completed my first knife yet,but

Hi All,

When it is done, it will be my deisign but when I elctro etch it, it won't say handmade by me, cuz the way the taught us in jewelry tech school, there was a diffence in handmade and handwrought., now I dont want to ruffle any feathers this is my personal conviction. They taught us handmade was just that made entirely by hand, and hand wrought was if any machines were involved were called hand wrought. All my blades will be marked as such and besides somehow I like the term better, guess I am just weird. Hope to show my new blade soon. UB
  #205  
Old 01-31-2009, 05:42 PM
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Yup, that's why mine say 'handcrafted' ......


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