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  #1  
Old 03-05-2017, 06:05 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Little forge build

I lit up one of those weed killer torches and a light went off in my head...

So I had an old fire extinguisher which has been replaced. This thing is probably close to 20 years old and never been used or recharged.

Started by cutting off the top.
[IMG][/IMG]


Then I had to cut a hole. This was the biggest question in my head. Only hole saws I could find were for wood or softer materials. I figured I would sacrifice the saw cutting through the steel but was too cheap to spend $14-$18bucks on a saw to use one time. So I roughed it in with the angle grinder.

[IMG][/IMG]

I smoothed it out with a rotary file chucked in my drill press.

[IMG][/IMG]

I had a 2 3/8" jewelry casting flask that the propane burner would just fit into. I fitted it in the hole opened up very tightly. I mean VERY tightly. It takes a hammer to tap it in and out.


Then I tapped it for thumb screws.




I put the koa wool in and went out to do a test firing.


Continued...


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  #2  
Old 03-05-2017, 06:13 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Starting to look good.

Doug


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  #3  
Old 03-05-2017, 06:20 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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So the propane torch burner fit inside so snugly, I didn't even need the set thumb screws. So I proceeded to fire it up. But it became Immediately apparent something wasn't quite right.



The flame was not at all torch-like and was burning outside of the forge. Maybe I just need to give it more gas!!! WELL that produced an impressive flame thrower anyway, but still not a forge.


Humm.... seems the flame was burning outside of the chamber as if the gas was just passing through... seemed like it wasn't sucking oxygen into it somehow. So I decided to drill out the flask/burner flange with some air holes.



Success! This produced the desired results.





Great little afternoon project. I believe with some tweaking I can get the heat to be pretty impressive in there. Debating whether to take the time and trouble to coat the wool with refractory cement or such. Seems pretty good as is. I have some small ceramic squares made for heat distribution on a grill that I will put in the bottom to lay a blade on. Still not sure the burner should have been a little closer to the opening. A longer knife and the tang area will be out of the hottest heat. Anyway, I'll put some steel in it tomorrow and see how it heats up.

Thanks Ray and dtec for the tips!


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Old 03-05-2017, 06:52 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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The coating on the wool is to trap the wool fibers so that they don't get blown out of the forge on the wave of burnt gasses. You don't want to breathe in those fibers....


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Old 03-05-2017, 06:58 PM
rusty rat rusty rat is offline
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Oh, this is awesome! That might be an option for me. I'm looking at a fire extinguisher right now the same size I think. I was also researched those weed killer torches as well. Great info and thanks for taking the time to post.

rr/dan
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2017, 07:16 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Coat that wool knucklehead! We want you to stay around here much longer than breathing those air-bornes will allow.
I've used coffee cans and bean cans, even a mailbox. Just takes a little thinking. I use a coffee can one to do my miniatures in just using an old bernzo for a torch/heat supply.


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  #7  
Old 03-06-2017, 08:55 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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I agree... COAT THE WOOL!

I would also add that you're likely going to have issues using the "weed burner"..... 1. The sizing of the burner to the forge is way out... what's happening is you've got far too much fuel being "pumped" into that size of a forge chamber....so the excess is going outside and using the oxygen in the surrounding atmosphere for combustion. You're just not going to be able to control a venturi burner of that size versus the forge chamber size.
3. Based on the point inside a "weed burner" where ignition takes place, it's common that using it in this scenario, and as it heats up with extended use, they will often "pre ignite" and become dangerous. Just be cautious with it!


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Old 03-06-2017, 10:44 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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What Ed said. No need to screw around with a weed burner anyway as it is easy to build your own burner. A simple venturi can be built with two pieces of pipe from the hardware store, a really good one takes some study but can be done with a little effort. Or, a forced air burner is very simple to make and simple to use, a very effective burner made from a few pieces of pipe, some valves, and a blower motor. Takes about an hour to build after you get the parts collected ....


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Old 03-06-2017, 11:14 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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I aagree with pretty much every thing said, but the most IMPORANT IS TO COAT THE WOOL!!!! satinite is cheap enough man deffinitly not worth the health risk not coating it, The only other suggestion is to get a proper burner....Ask kyle he was using a torch....now yes your weed killing burners has more flame coming out than a torch but its still not proper burner, Ask kyle how he likes it I sold him one of mine. I think he is MUCH happier with it!, They are simple enough to make with just pieces of pipe from a hardware store and a tip from a mig welder uses as a nossel inside the burner that the propane goes through.....its simple and cheap to do with a lil common sense, wich you have proved you have....or if you don't want to make it buy one from high temp tools, cheaper to build tho hightemp tools also sells the pieces you would need for the build if you cant find some of them locally but I doubt that will be a big problem........Other than that it looks great thanks for posting pics
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:03 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Caffrey View Post
I agree... COAT THE WOOL!

I would also add that you're likely going to have issues using the "weed burner"..... 1. The sizing of the burner to the forge is way out... what's happening is you've got far too much fuel being "pumped" into that size of a forge chamber....so the excess is going outside and using the oxygen in the surrounding atmosphere for combustion. You're just not going to be able to control a venturi burner of that size versus the forge chamber size.
3. Based on the point inside a "weed burner" where ignition takes place, it's common that using it in this scenario, and as it heats up with extended use, they will often "pre ignite" and become dangerous. Just be cautious with it!
Everyone can breath easy (pun intended) the wool is coated.

I used it today and found out what Ed says is spot on. This weed burner, as a burner, pumps too much fuel into the chamber for it's size so a lot of the fuel is combusted outside of the chamber. Much too much fuel is wasted and the chamber, while hot, doesn't get REALLY hot, again I suspect because it just isn't efficient. I would say it is hot enough to forge a knife, barely, and hot enough to heat treat easily. It gets hot enough to forge mild steel, but not NEARLY hot enough to even consider forge welding. Which is kind of what I'm shooting for. Other than maybe some old files turned into knives for personal use, I can't see much time forging knives. I do stock removal and make some decent knives.

On the other hand, I DO have an interest in in perhaps making some throwing tomahawks for fun from old files or farrier rasps. But to do a folded head it has to be able to get hot enough to forge weld.

So I did enjoy making some tongs. I dinked around a long time, not really knowing what I was doing and while they ended up pretty rough, they are functional. I made out of 3/8" mild steel, next I'll use some 1/2" for a sturdier pair and can hopefully do a little better next time.



I did try to forge a knife from an old file. Like I said, there is just barely enough heat and really, not quite enough. Well, that's my opinion based on my forging experience which is squat.


I did have a big ole heavy file and so attempted the hawk. While there was, again, just enough heat to do the initial drawing in the center and folding it, no way was it going to forge weld. So I'll save this for another time hopefully.


Actually had a lot of fun trying out this experiment. Enough that I will probably spend a little more bucks and time and make a burner. I burned up most of a full 20lb. propane tank so this won't work for sure. Need something hotter and more efficient. I'll probably Ray's advice and go the homemade burner route.


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  #11  
Old 03-06-2017, 06:57 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Medical problems from breathing any type of fiber wool that can take high heat.

Or other types of dusts. This refractory stuff causes silicosis and will tear little rips in your lungs resulting in breathing problems caused by the scars, even when dry and mixing it. Has killed miners in a week or two. Use a small fan to pull dust away from you. Why jewelers make cabochons with a wet grinder( no dust borne particles). Asbestos is the finer fibers of asbestos at .3 to 5 microns causes lung cancer for some reason, also causes scarring of lungs and only known cause of mesothelioma, repeat, only known cause period. Mesothelioma is cancer of the lining of the lung, you're a dead man. Fiberglass (G10) also causes scarring and a decent dust mask is necessary.

The aluminum oxide etc. dusts from grinding belts will cause silicosis too and is probably partly the cause of my COPD. We didn't wear dust masks way back when unless you bought your own, some places didn't even have them. You need a fume mask for phenolics and other synthetics if they burn just a little bit. Many woods have silicate in them like Desert Ironwood and African Blackwood as well as the oily woods or any bone as bone just stinks puking bad if it burns or even when it doesn't sometimes too! Ivory gets in your lungs and may cause infections besides just clogging your lungs up.

At the very least invest in some good Tuberculosis medical masks for fine dusts. Make sure it fits tight and a good respirator that doesn't make you feel claustrophobic is an even better idea using a HEPA filter which block super fine particles like asbestos and bacteria, I tape paper towels over my filters to make them last longer from the bigger particles. Plus you can add fume filters too. Have a HEPA filter vacuum too. Oh, also a well ventilated area if indoors, that's a lot of CO2/3.

Have two kids in the Medical field, happy to help with any knife medical questions like; is it ok to cut towards yourself? NO! Never unless you're being squeezed by a python, then go ahead, couldn't hurt and might be helpful.

Last edited by jimmontg; 03-07-2017 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:20 PM
mr.HC mr.HC is offline
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Enjoyed your process start to finish, learned some things as well, thanks for the info.

Carl
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2017, 12:11 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Goater, next time you're thinking of doing some sheetmetal Fab let me know and I may be able to come down and help you. Save you some time and have a few useful tools you could borrow. Nice start to a tomahawk head, make your own drift punches for the handle hole. Go to a machine shop and buy some big 1" to 2" round stock and taper grind it. (know a place) Like to show you some blacksmithing too and make your own twisting tools. Never mind using crescent wrenches. I won't ask for much in return. Only your SOUL. Bwahahaha!!!

PM me dude.
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:22 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
Goater, next time you're thinking of doing some sheetmetal Fab let me know and I may be able to come down and help you. Save you some time and have a few useful tools you could borrow. Nice start to a tomahawk head, make your own drift punches for the handle hole. Go to a machine shop and buy some big 1" to 2" round stock and taper grind it. (know a place) Like to show you some blacksmithing too and make your own twisting tools. Never mind using crescent wrenches. I won't ask for much in return. Only your SOUL. Bwahahaha!!!

PM me dude.

Thanks for the offer. FWIW my soul already belongs to another. Not sure how far I want to go into this. I have an artist friend who has the whole shebang, anvil, hammers, forge, even a power hammer and has offered to let me use it all. Again, not sure how far I want to go. I only have a little 28 lb. anvil. If I were going into this in any way I'd need something heavier...though this little anvil will work for now. I guess it's better than a 30lb piece of RR track. Working on building a new burner for now. Good tip for a drift punch.
Thanks again, may take you up on it some time.


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Old 03-07-2017, 01:39 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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WNC I cant speek to the burner your using but this might be helpful, I have been talking to ky trying to help him with his HT. He started with a torch, not much luck, I sold him one of my burners at first he didn't have it tunred up very much and the results he was getting the grain was fine around the edges but the middle was still corse, I think having a good burner turned down a lil bit might be similar to your weed killer, I think yours spreads the heat out more its probilly not as focused as a venturi burner. Once he got the burner turned up to the righty level the grain of the coupons was much more even, like I said never used that kind of burner but I think you might end up getting similar results
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