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  #16  
Old 02-08-2017, 02:23 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Well apparently when alloyed and HT they were springy Damon. The platinum by itself is kind of springy, but springs is what the blueprint called them and they did have a heat treat, though I have no idea how that worked. Platinum's melting point is just about the same as titanium around 3200 degrees which is why I also think it may have been for the SR-71. What the alloy mix itself was precisely I have no idea. They look like silver more than anything. Remember, pure iron is soft and not springy and carbon isn't springy either.

Does lead alloy with steel? Yes. Try 12L14 a leaded sulfurized steel I warned my last company that made weak welds, but the machinists liked it. When machined it looks polished with no sanding, I mean it looks polished straight off the lathe. I had to make my welds 3x as big with it vs on 1020 cold roll. Try 1155 steel for an axe, apparently they make rail car wheels from it is what a friend told me when he worked at a company that made train cars. I have made and welded driveshafts for machinery with it. It tends to crack as most medium carbon steels do unless preheated, plus 1155 has a higher amount of sulfur in it to for ease of machining, hence it is considered a free machining steel. I never tried to make a tomahawk or axe from it, but it would be interesting to try. I wonder if the tiny bit of extra sulfur would make it brittle. I should have grabbed a piece of it from the scrap barrel.

I have seen some really odd alloys. One was an aluminum bronze titanium alloy that wore out bandsaw blades and I had to heat orange hot to bend. Took almost an hour to cut through a 1"x3" bar and an abrasive blade would clog up unless you kept putting cutting wax on it. The machinists used carbide cutters to machine it. Hated that job. Hated those springs too for that matter.
Next time I come up I'll bring one of the springs, they were already kind of springy before HT Damon. I'm guessing they were an electrical relay spring or similar.

I am familiar with HT steels of course, but also some aluminum and hardenable brass heat treats. HT isn't just about steels of course. I used to bend 6061 T0 (0 temper) aluminum that would be HT to T6 afterwards as T6 tends to crack badly when bent. Also in keeping with the subject of anodizing, aluminum when anodized gets harder from the anodize process. Not a lot, but it will jump up a few points of temper, it will also get harder when exposed to the sun and weather ages. Thickness matters too, the thinner sheet metal would get more brittle after anodize. We all have aluminum oxide sanding belts, also AO melts at around 3600 degrees where aluminum itself melts at around 1200. Oxide begins to form immediately after being exposed to air.

Alloy metals is a field onto itself, hence a Metallurgy engineering degree is offered in colleges. I mean who would have thought that adding nitrogen to steel would make it harder with less carbon like Sandvik' 14C28N has just 0.11 nitrogen in it or Z-FINit.

I apologize for going off on a tangent I was looking at AEB-L and all the cryo it needs is dry ice and it doesn't even have to soak at that temp, -109F is dry ice temp and it just needs -95F. Just some minor tweaking with the alloy and it doesn't need liquid nitrogen to achieve RC58-60. Or look at O1, just some minor additions of 0.50% chrome and tungsten, plus 0.20% of Vanadium with 0.90% carbon and you have a tool steel that is superior to the 10xx carbon steels. I just find it all fascinating. Like you found that CPM S30V. I still haven't seen a pic of it finished. Did you put a pic of it up on your Flickr account yet Damon?
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  #17  
Old 02-08-2017, 08:45 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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I know mixing different types of metals 'can' produce, or rather change, normal properties of the original metals.
Platinum is NOT springy. It is actually very soft but very dense. It is denser than lead, and very easily bent. But "springy" isn't something platinum would be known as. Paladium, ruthenium or some other metal in the platinum family? Don't know.
Silver also is a soft metal and is very difficult to harden. Even work-hardening is difficult. Both are known as a pure white, though silver will oxidize, whereas platinum does not normally. Nickel (sometimes referred to as "nickel silver" is a very hard and brittle metal.) It also is pure white and has traditionally been the alloy used to make "white gold", even though on a molecular level, nickel really doesn't amalgamate with the gold.

None of these metals in and of themselves would be useful for anything requiring a "spring". Alloyed together in some secret .gov "recipe"? Dunno....

But I suspect there was more to this than those three metals if they were involved.

Anyway, I digress. My only point was to clarify the term "nickle platinum". As there is no such animal that I'm aware of. :-)


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Old 02-09-2017, 05:55 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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I've only ever saw it in aerospace and I'm pretty sure was for the SR-71 and it was Ni S Pl, it could also have had trace elements, but they were not called out on the print and I didn't bother to look up the Mil-Spec. I have never seen it otherwise although I have used platinum rod to weld with and It wasn't soft, but was springy, guessing maybe it had manganese in it. It isn't a secret process welding steel to aluminum, just a time consuming and expensive process that I do not even know if they still use it with some of the super glues now available. It is actually a brazing of steel to aluminum, takes 5 metals, steel, straight no titanium aluminum bronze, bronze A rod, copper and platinum rod and a strip of same. Haven't done it since the early 80s.

Yes it was aerospace. Many processes and even materials I have hardly ever seen outside Defense aerospace. Tantalum being one, very corrosion resistant, can hold nitric acid and I think phosphoric acid tanks too, you know the stuff they put in soft drinks like coke. Prevents your body from absorbing calcium and leaches the calcium from your teeth. Lots of tantalum goes into satellites as did many other things.
Ever hear of MU metal?
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2017, 08:23 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2017, 07:04 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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What is that Goater? Surrender from or to what? I do not know whether to take it as an insult or as actual praise. Neither are acceptable to me. You have prowess as a jeweler and you make good knives. I do too. I am continuing a debate and probably carried it too far. I am prone to such debates, but I will also apologize if I make a blunder. I make a joke about being being overeducated for my station in life. I apologize for my foolishness.

I have beheld your few knives you have put on our pictographs for us all to admire. I am sorry for my braggadocio by carrying on about my metal knowledge. I sometimes try to impress about my knowledge of metallurgy, of which I know much, but I must say I am sorry for harping on about that which is neither here nor there.
I apologize and have a good evening.
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  #21  
Old 02-10-2017, 08:34 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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No, No, no offense taken...please.
Just that the conversation has entered into a level above my pay grade so I have nothing to give. My only intent was to seek clarification as it did not square with my knowledge of the metals' characteristics. My understanding of platinum, silver, gold, nickel, and a few metals in the platinum family is limited to the jewelry industry/applications. Beyond that, I have no knowledge and thus nothing to add and so "surrendered" from the conversation.
That's all.
Sorry if my intent was misinterpreted.


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