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  #1  
Old 08-08-2005, 12:13 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Scagel goes for 7 G-s

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

I started watching this auction after it had hit reserve at less than $500.00. The seller didn't know enough about knives to advertise it as a Scagel. It was interesting to see all these guys bidding on it during the course of the week when they have to know that the higher the price of a knife gets the more people will take notice and recognize it for what it is. What are these guys thinking? I wouldn't be surprised if the winning bidder would have passed it by if the bidding had stayed lower. In any event, I think the guy got a bargain, and that if he relisted it as a Scagel he could make at least a couple of grand.

Ron
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2005, 01:54 AM
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hammerdownnow hammerdownnow is offline
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Not knowing enough to tell for sure, these are the kind of auctions that make you wonder. Guy don't know what he has. Will send pics of pertanent identifing marks. Marks shown are out of line and out of sync. A&F C???? Sheath looks real. Knife is too shady to plop down that cash without getting it authenticated. I would be curious as to what Dr. Lucie or Bernard Levine had to say.


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  #3  
Old 08-08-2005, 08:34 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Good points, Hammerdown. Thanks. Maybe I should stick to what I know best (Randalls)

Last edited by BoBlade; 08-08-2005 at 11:51 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-08-2005, 01:27 PM
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Buddy Thomason Buddy Thomason is offline
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I'll go out on a limb and say this one is the real thing. I agree it's hard to believe the seller truly did not know what he/she was selling. However playing dumb wouldn't seem to confer any advantage and the low reserve also suggests it's true. And yes, the smart bidder would've waited, hoping the bidding would stay low and snipe at the end.

As for the knife and sheath, they are classic Scagel and though the date is hard to pin down it could be as early as the 1930s. Scagel made these knives for A&F (and other mail-order outfitters) and they were the most expensive knives in their catalog. This one probably had a retail price of under $20 (possibly under $10 !).

The pictures, although not great, are good enough to see that there is nothing about the knife (or sheath) to suggest it is a fake. The winner paid what I would call "full retail" for this knife. To turn it for a 2K profit with reasonable confidence one would have to have purchased it for aroound #2,500 - a good deal on this knife. A mint version of a hunter like this one might fetch around $14,000 or even more. As with anything like this the difference between 'used' and 'mint' is huge from a collector's standpoint.

I'm not Levine or Lucie so consider the above just my opinion. Think I may have an image of a very minty version of this style. If so I'll post it later. Ron - thanks for posting this. Always fun to share and discuss such things. Roc - thanks for bring this to my attention too. Well, I'm off to get lunch. It's rule #1 you know - Never miss a meal.
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  #5  
Old 08-08-2005, 01:58 PM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Hi Buddy,

Thanks for wading in. The only thing that was questionable to me is the AF & C stamp (as Hammerdown pointed out). Have you ever seen a Scagel with a "C" after the A & F?

Best,

Ron
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2005, 11:24 PM
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Ron - Yes, the 'C' is actually 'Co' for Company, as with the A&F Co. logo stamped on the back of the sheath belt loop. Here's another example:



Front side of same knife:



These are from the 'minty' hunter I mentioned above that is very similar to the one that sold on eBay. Here's a not-so-great picture of it, but I think you can see it's in great shape compared to the eBay item. The sheath is virtually identical (except it's mint too). A&F supplied these sheaths for their Scagel blades. Though Scagel made sheaths, he didn't make these.



Boy, I wish I knew as much about Scagels as you do Randalls! I've been enjoying your posts for some time now (starting way back on that "other" forum).

Now, Hammerdownnow (Roc) - he's kind of a scary dude but he's forever bringing up interesting stuff. They finally had to give him his own forum (which he co-moderates with rhrocker (Robert) called "This Old Knife." Roc, we're friends right? So, don't hurt me man. I was only kiddin' about you being a scary dude. Here....take my knives, you can have 'em....


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  #7  
Old 08-09-2005, 12:23 AM
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jclarksnakes jclarksnakes is offline
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Buddy,
.....Thanks for the information on Scagels. Your knowledge of the subject is impressive. For those of us who only collect Randalls the Scagels are the only other knives we consider as sacred.
Jeff
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2005, 12:46 AM
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hammerdownnow hammerdownnow is offline
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I guess seeing so many fakes, Randall and Scagel, on ebay has me more nervous than a long tailed cat at RHRockers house.

I am trying to learn to "Read the knife" as Bernard says. First, I should learn how to read. I got A&C Co mixed up with L F &C (Landers Frary & Clark), and thought the "&" was out of place. Camera angle might have a lot to do with that one looking funny to me I think. Did Scagel have a A&C Co stamp, or did he stamp the letters individually? The examples in the two photos seem to show, and again it may be the angle, The letters seem to be skeewed, and spaced differently. Also the stamp on your knife seems to show much more wear, indicating it may have sanded sanded or buffed. Or, it could be just a miss hit stamping. What do you think Buddy?


Bo Randall did do a lot to keep Scagels name alive. I will take the trip to see the Scagels and old Randalls at the shop someday.

Buddy, you keep them knives. I have said it before. I could not think of a better steward to hold, promote, and share them with the word. Your reverence and respect for those national treasures is evident. You are doing a great job.


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Last edited by hammerdownnow; 08-09-2005 at 01:04 AM. Reason: add blab
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2005, 09:48 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Buddy,

Thanks for the info, pics and kind words. As much as I revere Scagels, I'm still a Randall man to the core. A little story for you that may surprise you: Once up a time a guy I knew came across an old one-of-a-kind special order Randall hunter.



The only way I could get my hands on that knife was to part with my one and only Scagel knife which I did without hesitation.



Roc,

I'm not sure about the A&F C stamp being a single stamp or separate letters, but I do know Old Bill did some individual letter stamping. This is a stamp from an old Scagel axe I used to own.




Best,

Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Big Hunter.jpg (42.1 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg scagel.jpg (28.8 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg Scagel axe 1.jpg (27.7 KB, 88 views)

Last edited by BoBlade; 08-09-2005 at 10:02 AM.
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  #10  
Old 08-10-2005, 10:37 AM
Sam Wereb Sam Wereb is offline
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I don't get it. I'm a bona-fide knife lover and I still don't understand. These days, $7000 makes a good down payment on a house, buys 250 shares of INTEL or as many as ten knives from a great modern maker. Why do people love these Scagels so?
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  #11  
Old 08-10-2005, 01:26 PM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Hi Sam,

Buddy is better qualified to answer your question than I (and I hope he does), but I'll make a poor attempt myself: William Scagel is known as the "Father of the Modern Custom Knife", as no man has influenced modern knifemaking more than he. Both the man himself and the knives he made are legendary in their uniqueness. People have been quoted as saying that the hair on the back of their neck has stood up just seeing a Scagel knife in person. Seldom do they come up for sale and (unlike Intel stock) they have been appreciating every year. You and I can't relate to this, but there are knife collectors out there where money is no object. To put the auction I referred to in perspective, here is a similar knife currently up for sale:

http://www.legendaryknifemakers.com/...e/AFScagel.php

Best,

Ron
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2005, 09:02 AM
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Buddy Thomason Buddy Thomason is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerdownnow
I guess seeing so many fakes, Randall and Scagel, on ebay has me more nervous ........Did Scagel have a A&C Co stamp, or did he stamp the letters individually? The letters seem to be skeewed, and spaced differently. Also the stamp on your knife seems to show much more wear, indicating it may have sanded sanded or buffed. Or, it could be just a miss hit stamping.
Fakes are definitely an issue. Here's a fake Scagel that has appeared on e-bay twice in te past year and a half or so:


I don't think I've ever seen a proper A&F Co Scagel stamp. The ones above he stamped by hand as he often did people's names and it could look miss-hit and pretty sloppy at times. Since he stamped and then finished the blade the depth of the punch varied and/or looked worn. He did use a nice V. L. & A. stamp for those bladed made for that Chicago outfitter. They were bought out by A&F in 1929, a fact that dates V.L. & A. stamped blades (with a few exceptions) to 1929 or earlier.

Last edited by Buddy Thomason; 08-11-2005 at 09:17 AM.
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2005, 09:15 AM
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Buddy Thomason Buddy Thomason is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBlade
A little story for you that may surprise you.................... This is a stamp from an old Scagel axe I used to own.
Ron, that is a very interesting story. I love the Randall hunter - looks to be like the #3 model which Bo Randall is said to have derived from the first Scagel knife he ever saw that fateful day on the shore of Lake Walloon (?sp). The Scagel knife you parted with to get the Randall hunter ilustrates one of Scagel's common design elements that makes many of his knives beautiful in peoples' eyes - not a straight line anywhere!

The axe is interesting too. I'd be very interested to know what you know about it, where it came from, where it went when it left you etc. Anything would be helpful as there is probably a good story about this Hankison gentleman and his relationship with Scagel if I can find a few more of the missing pieces. Check these out:



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  #14  
Old 08-11-2005, 09:55 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Good morning, Buddy

I picked my axe up on e-bay. It wasn't advertized as a Scagel so it came to me "relatively" cheap. I flipped it back on e-bay and made a few bucks that went towards an old Randall (of course). I still have quite a few pics that I will post after I get home from work tonight along with what background info I have (gotta run now). One of the neatest things about the axe was the headcover. I had no idea that Otto sold so many Scagels!




Thanks and best,

Ron
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File Type: jpg Scagel axe 019a.jpg (44.2 KB, 52 views)
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  #15  
Old 08-11-2005, 12:38 PM
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Buddy Thomason Buddy Thomason is offline
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I don't know if he sold many, or even any Scagel blades but he comissioned some for sure. Scagel may have even done some custom decorative ironwork in this gentleman's home. Emphasis on MAY - as this is not yet proven (but I'm working on it). Thanks Ron, any little information tidbits would be much appreciated.
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