Blade types

[cmcgearhead]

OK next question from the pain in the ass new guy. I have been reading studying and digging for several months into Knife making and , have started getting equipment together, looking at Feb or March starting. I want to go for nice high end knifes not just the plain old average run of the mill blade. I have looked at carbon steel, stainless heat treating tempering and, forging. So question is which is the ultimate best method. Saw a video where a guy uses a sledge to drive his knife thru a steel cable and, it retains the edge, this is what I am going for. I know it wont be easy and there is a whole world of mistakes to be made but, I will keep trudging on till I get it. My momma used to saw if it keeps you out of the pool halls it can't be bad Thanks
PS what do ya'll recommend for types of steel to make good strong knifes out of

[Ray Rogers]

That's like asking what is the 'best' martial art? My teacher used to say 'the one that you can master'. Same is true here. All those methods and materials can make great knives and all can make knives that will perform to about the same levels if you can do your part.

If you are particularly interested in making a knife that can be hammered through a steel cable successfully then you would make that knife a specific way. Same if you wanted to make a knife that would bend 90 degrees without breaking - there are ways that will make a blade like that by all the popular blade making methods. Will either of those knives be the 'best' all around knife for every purpose to which you might actually use that knife for in a real world situation? Heck no, not even close.

You have a certain amount of money to spend on knife making tools, you have certain things in your scrap pile, certain things that friends might give you, certain things that friends may have available that you can use when you need it, certain skills you already have that can be put to use.....in other words, no one knows more about how you can build a knife than you do - we can't tell you. By your name tag I assume that you have some knowledge of metal and the ways it can be shaped. Even if you use a CNC to shape your blade (yuck!), in the end, you'll have about the same blade shape as if you had used files by hand, or a belt sander, or a hammer and anvil.

After you have the metal shaped is when the good stuff happens. It is the heat treatment that makes a blade perform in any given specific way (assuming the HT is well matched to the type of steel used). For simple steels a forge can be used, for complex steels you'll need an electric furnace. To get the results you say you want - and I doubt you really know what you want just yet - you will probably need really good control of the HT.

Anyway, think about that. Then, come back and try your question again . There is no ultimate best way, there is only the way you master ...

[cmcgearhead]

Thanks for the help I may be putting the horse before the cart. I am making a basic kiln now, simple gas fired. So what would you recommend for starting with, again I want to work up to a high quality product. I have been told stay away from stainless steel till I get a little experience under my belt. There seem to be a million types of good old carbon steel, just very confused as to which is the best to use, for the best quality

[Ray Rogers]

OK, that's better. If you're going to have a gas fired kiln - should I assume you mean 'forge' like most of us build? - then that limits you to the simpler steels. This is because forges as we commonly build them don't have any way to hold a precise temperature for a precise and extended length of time which is a requirement for heat treating the more complex alloys. So, unless you say that you have a way to accomplish extremely good temperature control we'll stick to simpler steels.

You still have your choice of how to shape your blades. As a first knife builder, I would suggest the same as we always do and that is 1084 carbon steel. This steel is very forgiving of HT variations, is inexpensive to buy, and will create an excellent blade if you do your part. Remember again that the HT is the primary source of a blade's performance so if you are really trying to squeeze the last little bit out of your blades you'll either have to get an electric furnace someday or go through years of formal study to become a Master Smith so that you can get into the correct ball park with a forge. Even then, you'd have to leave stainless steels out of your inventory (which most smith's are more than happy to do).

Start with the 1084 and learn to make the best blades from it that can be made. That will teach you how to form the blade (by whatever method), and how to control your forge during the HT process. You'll be doing good to get this much under good control by next Christmas. There are other steels that will make better blades but they are incrementally more difficult to HT correctly. The rest of a blade's performance comes from its geometry. Get the HT right and give it the appropriate geometry and a 1084 blade can be hammered through at least some cable or it can be made to bend most of 90 degrees.....or whatever else you may decide is the most impressive way to define the 'best' knife. If all it took was using the 'best' steel we'd all be making the 'best' knives ....

[cmcgearhead]

Sweet you have no idea how much that helps Ready or not here we go will let you know how it all turns out, I do realize that I am in for a whole world of mistakes and "ahh craps" but, as they say that is how you learn. Thanks Don

[Doug Lester]

It's easy to be impressed with "neat tricks", which is what I would classify driving a blade through a steel cable with a sledge hammer, but that doesn't mean that the blade would be worth much in dressing out and skinning a deer or slicing through a rope. But hey, most of us started out there before we learned that is isn't that simple. The term "high end knives" is very subjective. There are a lot of "high end knives" out there that won't do much that your common run-of-the-mill type knife won't do but you will pay a premium for them.

As far as a blade that will cut through cable goes, there's plenty of them out there. Of course the blade is part of a shear designed to cut through cable and doesn't have a knife handle attached to it. It's just a very hard blade, but not too hard, that will stand up to going through "soft" steel cable. Not a whole heck of a lot different than that knife that you saw in the demonstration.

Doug

[AUBE]

If you want to make the best blade *you* can, then study metallurgy and blade geometry. There is no "best" when it comes to steel/blade shapes, and its almost always a trade off....you give up some edge retention for toughness, etc.

If there were a "best" we would all just be using that.

[R. Yates]

Back in the old days many a New maker just started with any type of steel till the Master approved of their skill to move to an expensive type of steel learning the skill set to forge ,grind ,Shape , and move steel lets not forget the finishing of that said steel that is why folks learn from doing . there is not any master or experienced maker that would send you a Damascus billet to start work on ,Why it takes time to build it and it cost quite a bit to do so . However any 10xx series steel would be fine . looking at the $50 dollar knife shop is one of the best books to have for any beginner once you have learned it and well then try some simple things .