Cold rolled steel, bed frames

Will, part of living in this country is having the right to say what you think, things that come out of Lamnia mouth will be heard comming out of thousands of others teenagers mouths also. Seeing a very small piece of life along with being judgemental gives them the feeling of living in a joke. I'm sure what came out of his mouth was not ment to be offensive, I think its more a matter of speeking before one thinks.

I appreciate you guys in the armed forces, but you got to remember who made the choice to be a soldier. Its sad to be away from the family in times like this and not to be there at other important dates but it was your choice. You guys got it pretty good. Email, internet, we were lucky when the helecopter didn't get shot down just bringing out the mail. Nothing I liked better than leaving Nam and feeling like I had to sneek home... I won't go there. Ray

Raymond,
I fully realize that freedom of speech is one of the greatest gifts of living in this country. Funny, you'd think he'd realize this also.

Yeah, we've got it nice now. In Nam you would've had email if it was available. Even the troops in Afghanistan have email, military email isn't dependent on phone lines. The higher ups realize that email is a lot better than "snail mail", it's fast and doesn't require a lot of manpower to distribute.

I fully realize the consequences of my choice to be a soldier, I'd still make the same choice. This isn't my first deployment, it won't be my last, OPTEMPO is not about to slow down any time in the near future. I can't answer your statement about "sneaking home", that's a generational situation a sad one.

I wasn't try to destroy Lamnia's feelings, just trying to make him think about the luxuries he has compared to people around the world.

Will
Legionnaire for Pax Americana

Hey Will, I know what it is like to be away from the family for long periods. It ain't pleasant.

About Lamnia...he is doing something about it, he is speaking out. I heard a recent poll which said that only 4 percent of government employees felt it was o.k. to critcise or suggest changes without fear of discipline. That is in Canada but I can't think the numbers are much different in the U.S..

ghostdog

The cool thing about Lamnia, is that he is into something constructive here. Knifemaking may not seem so wholesome for kids, to some adults ... no? But we know better ! I figure as long as any kid is into something other than sex, drugs, alcohol or violence, it can't be half bad ... even knifemaking ! We are lucky to have the opportunity to influence a younger person, let's don't blow it with a bunch of personal politics.

Sorry if I offended you sir, but as has been posted I am a judgemental teen speaking his mind. I fully realize that this is the greatest most powerful nation in the world, and as one I think that several things are well, not jokes, but rather sad. We now teach drug awareness class in middle school, to prevent kids from doing drugs? Not really, to educate them so they can make their own decision. I realize you are in the armed forces, but the truth is that the CIA funds many of their ventures, as they have in the past with drug money. Our countries illiteracy rate is like 10% that's in a country host to hundreds of millions of people. Where my county alone gets over 30 million a year for school related works. With all our global power and all of our economic prosperity, the majority of the country thinks driving on the left side of the road, or the metric system are silly or "stupid." Forgive me if I sound like I'm bashing America, I'm not, I'm bashing the people who have allowed us to become soo comfortable with ignorance that noone comments on it now. America's not a joke, it's too sad to laugh at.

I fully realize that it is my right to express my thoughts. And to vocalize these thoughts is also my right. If every time someone said something unpopular and they were quieted our country would not be where it is today. It would not only be part of Britain, but it would probably also be far weaker than it is. My opinion are not necessarily right, or wrong. They are what they are opinions. I formed these particular ones based on my limited knowledge of the world and the experiences I have had with the government. Whether you agree or disagree, I would love to hear your take. But don't try to flame me, and don't say I don't know what I'm talking about, or any other adult cop-out. Just your opinions and input. I'd love to hear what you people have to say, because I respect you and would likely at least listen.

Hey Lamnia,

Right on! Sounds to me like you have been doing your home work. Sounds to me like you have a grasp of some truths that are ignored or denied by the majoity.



ghostdog

Wow, interesting topic. Haven't had one like this for a while. For once I agree with just about all the "main" points made.

Will from Bama, it's good to hear from you. Hope you stay safe and get to come home soon. I know you're busy, but we appreciate your dropping by the forum, and hope you won't be a stranger. I agree with Will, in that it would be a good idea for anyone who can, to get out and see some of the world--it will certainly help to re-frame one's frame of reference. Put things in perspective real fast.

For all the things wrong our country has done and will continue to do, either accidentally or on purpose as long as human beings run it, there is nothing, down deep, much scarier than being in a remote, backwards, foreign country which is corrupt, and not the most stable of places to boot, and realizing that you have no rights whatsoever. All the rights guaranteed to us in our Constitution are only good on our soil. In Latin America, for example, in some places one can have a traffic bump-up, and get hauled off to jail (as often there is no difference between civil and criminal court) and wait there for weeks, maybe months, for a trial, which may or may not include legal representation for the accused, and whose outcome may be based on how much money you can come up with, which if not enough, can land you in a dirty, rat infested jail, with 12 other people in a cell probably not as big as a small bedroom, with a metal bucket to go to the bathroom in, and a sadist who doesn't speak your language for a guard. Protest the injustice of it all, and you'll be spitting out teeth, walking with a limp for the rest of your life, and be peeing blood in the community bucket til they get tired of keeping you there or you die of dyssentary--or something worse. No one phone call privelege either.

There is no perfect place on earth ruled by man, but for all we've got to complain about here at home, there are a lot worse places one could find themselves. Ask our boys (and ladies) in Afghanistan right now, among other places. Not all the world is "civilized." In some places it's the law of the jungle, or the law of the warlord, or the law of how much will it cost to get me out of this. "Send lawyers, guns and money," as aptly written by Warren Zevon.

I think it is good we have passionate young people who speak out on the wrongs they see and know are going on. It motivates the rest of us to get off our duffs and take care of business and try to make things better. However, in their passion, young folks often lack the experience and wisdom of having been around the block a few times, to know when and how much tact to use to temper their statements. That will come one day, with the graying of the hair and the crowsfeet creeping in at the corner of the eyes. Besides, weren't most of us that way once upon a time?

We've got a lot of problems here in the USA, but let's also remember that we have a number of people in this country who have shed blood and have lost family and friends defending the country, or it's principles or policies whether they particularly liked or agreed with what they were doing or not, and, who see this country in a completely different light, having done so, and having been stationed somewhere else for long periods of time. The perceived "rightness" or "wrongness" of a military action, or the armed enforcement of political policy foreign or domestic, in the eyes of those who sit at home, does nothing to change the circumstances or the risks and realities of those in uniform who find themselves in harms way. Feelings aside on all the issues, they need our prayers and support until they all come home.

Let's be real thankful we do have the right to criticize that which we see around us that is not right, but let's also be careful in how we present those criticisms. We can be right, but do so in a wrong way.

Also...what Tai said. I'm glad to see young folks (passionate young folks) wanting to get into knifesmithing and metal working. There's a lot worse things one could be doing with their time. Lamina, hang onto all that fire and passion--it will show up in your knifemaking, and be awesome to behold.

I wanted to right all the wrongs of the world at 20. Now at almost 50, I'm just trying to make things as good as I can, where ever I find myself, here or abroad, and endeavoring to live at peace with all people. Sometimes that's easier to do than at other times, and easier or more difficult depending on where one is. It was effortless being around Achim and Tim in the beautiful, beautiful part of the world where they live. They took care of us like we were family.(Thanks again, guys.) But on the other hand, it's very different when I'm in Central America, and I am only allowed a machete, and there's lots of non-military personnel swaggering around with their fingers on their triggers and blood in their eyes, carrying pump shotguns and G3's, and many don't like me just because of something right, wrong, or indifferent they either feel or know my country has done to them. Sometimes they're right in their feelings, other times they are the victims of propaganda--but either way, one quickly realizes that "We aren't in Kansas any more, Toto." Anyway, one does what one can, and what one has to do. Hopefully those things coincide and not conflict.

There, I'm done. You can take all the above, and about a buck's worth of change, and with it, buy yourself a cup of coffee at most local diners. Cheers, and realize, that only in the US of A, could you spill that same cup of coffee in your lap and end up a millionaire. And that ain't no joke.

Lamnia,
First off, I should say I'm sorry I didn't realize that you are a teenager. You're a lot more articulate than most. I'm an Army brat and by the time I was a teen, I'd already travelled a great deal.

Yes, the right to dissent is what made America the power it is, politicians know that their ability to stay in office relies heavily upon keeping their voters fat and happy. The US government taken in whole is better than anything else devised by man, taken in parts..... well it ain't so hot. It's people like you that will keep our government honest and focused.

Dana stated a lot of what I'd say, I'd bet we've travelled some of the same roads in Hondo, Ecuador, Panama. When I travel down South, I pick my hotel by how many armed guards there are in front

I was privileged enough to witness the first general elections in Kosovo, the people were absolutely frantic with excitement to finally be free. Kosovars are dirt poor, with little hope of getting ahead because of no economy but they work hard. There's a kid that walks 20k twice a week to get stuff to sell to soldiers at one of the outposts.

I've travelled to places that have democracy after years of Russia's boot, they think because they can vote that they'll turn into America overnight. Somehow noone ever told them that it takes hard work to make a democracy. They struggle everyday trying to make it better, with America as their model.

I'll close this ramble with the words of a US soldier from Romania, he was in the US for 9 months, 6 of those months spent in the Army. "When I was growing up in Romania, the old people told us about how the Americans set us free, and that they knew if an American soldier ever came back to our village, we'd be free again. America isn't a country, it's an idea, a concept, that no matter how low you're born, you can succeed and be as rich as you want. I became an American soldier because I want to free other people, because they know that if I'm in their village, they are free."

Lamnia, keep questioning.

Will
Legionnaire for Pax Americana

Well, guys, i HAVE to tell you that this place here is NOT the USA. It is the Internet. And as such, it is international. And in some points it is a lot better than any country, as everybody has the right to express even more thoughts than he may have in any country, even in the USA.

Lamnia, you said that you don't see any reason to talk to a spanish person who couldn't talk with you (in english). I think that this way of thinking is highly offending. And if this is your opinion, then let me tell you the following:
If you have any questions on this forum which i may be able to answer, you better prepare to ask them in German. And get ready to get a German answer, because i don't see any reason why i should talk to an american person who thinks that he is so far above the rest of the world that he doesn't need to learn to talk with me. Ou en fran?ais, si ?a te pla?t mieux. Of op goed nederlands, als je dat wenst.

About your opinion that you could communicate with both french and spanish and maybe italian speakers if you were taught latin? Let me tell you one thing: forget about it! It just doesn't work. In my school, half of the kids learned french, the other half learned latin. None of the latin guys ever managed to speak a single word of french, spanish or italian. All of these languages are based on latin, but have gone their own ways for 2000 years. There are several words that have a certain relation because of the fact that they are based on the same latin word. But basing a communication on the fact that you learned latin? Never.

Achim

Achim, I am sorry if I offended you. THe way Isaid that came out wrong. I ment in in a relation sort of way, if the person who does not speak english does not want to leanr english and has no ambition to be able to speak it, I do not think that we would have enough in common to talk about much of anything. I do not set myself above anybody, besides maybe those more uneducated than me (I have trouble with that, like I said people without the drive to seek knowledge). If they were raised in America they probably had the same oportunity for growth and learning as I have had, if not better, their ignorance is because of laziness on their part or the people around them. In the case of someone who simply does not have the exposure or the means i have to gain knowledge I do not see myself over them, and would not scorn them.

About the latin thing, I would love to learn another language, and took some spanish in middle school. But it did not sit right with me, I just couldn't grasp the pronunciation. So I decided to go for something else, Latin, I was taught that latin was enough like the romance languaes that you could get a rough idea over to most people who spoke one of the languages. Forgive me for thinking that, as I said merican schools are not what they should be.
I'm really sorry what I said came out that way to you, that was not my intention. I have a high regard for you Achim, and Mr. Wagendorp, I DO NOT think I am better than you. By the way, are you anywhere near Germany? I might be up that way next year with a friend of mine. And I need a few language/culture barriers broken.

Normally I would let this whole thing blow over without a word. Too often, opinion and advice are uprooted by emotion and strong feelings, and everyone walks away hurt. That being said, I feel like my yard has been crapped in, too, and since we're praising 1st amendment rights, please allow me to excercize mine.

Mr. Artifex, you type "I realize you are in the armed forces, but the truth is that the CIA funds many of their ventures, as they have in the past with drug money." I don't know where you get your news from, but such thinking is usually found in the same publications where housewives claim they got pregnant from aliens, that garlic will cure cancer, and your neighbor saw Jesus's face in the mold in their fridge. I was hoping not to 'out' myself, but here goes: I am a proud American, patriotic, and honest to a fault. I work for those people, have seriously disrupted my life lately with the current global turmoil, and wouldn't change a thing. Your accusations are based on partial knowledge and a lot of fear. If you think that they're lying to the American public, you've got another thing coming. Can I prove it? Of course not. I can only give you my word, which in this forum is worth exactly as much as yours. For the official word, please visit our public web site at www.cia.gov or read this excerpt from 'Frequently Asked Questions': www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/faq.html#9

Our funding comes from one place: your pocket. Then we get to go beg Congress for enough of it to help keep this country safe, something that hasn't always worked out. Then we get to explain to Your Representatives why they didn't know 'such and such' was coming. If you'd like to learn more about how this all works, please go to the following links and read up on how the Intelligence Process is organized:

www.cia.gov/cia/publications/facttell/index.html

(More specifics about oversight)
www.cia.gov/cia/publications/facttell/legover.htm


Disclaimer: The above statement is not a reflection of Official US Policy in any way, shape or form. They are my own views and opinions, and should be taken as such. The hyperlinks were taken from the Public Web Site maintained by our Office of Public Affairs. For questions on content, contact them:

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Sorry if I ruined anyone's coffee this morning.
Chris

Don't worry too much. My opinion is that there are no people that are potentially better or worse than others. And i don't like ignorant people, too. My opinion is that if you stop learning it is time to start to lay down and die.

I am not anywhere NEAR Germany, i am IN Germany. I live in a small town 4 miles from Aachen, right at the frontiers of Holland and Belgium. Ask Dana, it is a place you better should NOT go to (too much beer and other bad stuff, you know)!!!

Achim

I like what Achim said, this ain't the USA, it is the internet. Let's try not to forget that.

Well said, Tai.