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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 01-03-2008, 11:52 PM
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damascus in the sandbox

Ed you have been there you know the climate intimately, a father requesting his son a custom blade for a tour in the sandbox and he insist he wants damascus and a leather sheath would you recomend it?? most of the research ive seen is non damascus shorter tanto style utility blades with kydex sheaths-- i read your earlier post recomending 2 1/2
inch loop to fit on their web gear -- i picture that with the blade being carried upside down
secured by thumstrap thanks bb


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  #2  
Old 01-04-2008, 07:59 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Most of the time Commanders would not allow troops to carry anything over 5" blade. It is one of the harshest environments that a knife can be exposed to, and my personal opinion is that a damascus blade with wood handle would be quickly wrecked, and a MAJOR waste of money. I was there during the early stages of the war, and at that time we were not allowed to carry any personal items (such as a knife) that had any identifying marks on it. If you had something like that, you were a danger to the whole outfit. Also, you have to think about it getting stolen. Someone with a nice damascus knife, would likely not have it very long.

What has to be thought about is that "pretty" isn't whats reqired. Simple, easy to use, and bland looking is what gets the job done, and is most appreciated. Most of the leather sheaths that were there didn't last a month. Imagine the ground being covered by "grit" the consistency of talcum powder....it gets into everything, and acts like "free range" sandpaper. Depending on what battle gear is being worn, the sheath is either clipped, or in most cases, duct taped on in a vertical manner with the handle facing down for easy access.

One knife that I carried during my whole career is one I don't mention much. Its a very large kukri design, in 5160, with brown micarta handle, carried in a super heavy kydex sheath that I rigged up 6 snaps...... half of the snap was on the sheath, and the other halves were on my rucksack. I was lucky in that most of the commanders knew about me and my knives, so I got away with packing that big thing. To be honest, it was used more as a digging tool and a prybar during my tour than it was a knife. Although I did have a couple of situations where I was really glad it was a large blade.... but I got far more use out of my smaller blades than anything.


I think what you've run into is a father who wants something special for his son, but who doesn't realize where his son is going to be, and what kind of challenges and environment is going to be faced. If he's a "new" troop, he might think it would be cool and all that, but if the son is a little "seasoned", he will appreciated a hardcore working knife much more than he will something "pretty."


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Old 01-04-2008, 09:48 AM
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I have made many blades for the sandbox.All were ATS34,recently the concern has been the sheaths.Most units do not allow leather sheaths.Most were 6"blades.I've been useing "Spec-0ps"combat master sheaths.they seem to be accepted by all the units.Just another thought have you considered a stainless damascus.This is the "Spec-Ops sheath, It has a removeable Kydex liner.


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Old 01-04-2008, 12:22 PM
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Andy,

Where do you find the Spec Ops sheaths? My brother in law is going to the sandbox this spring, and in talking to him over the holidays, he's finally realizing his knife isn't what it should be. I'm going to try and make him a small knife (4 inch blade) but haven't worked out the sheath yet.

Nathan
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:01 PM
B Doone Jr B Doone Jr is offline
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I just did a "google" search for spec op sheaths and came up with this site:

http://www.gearzoneproducts.com/inde...OD&ProdID=2805


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Old 01-04-2008, 03:02 PM
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Thanks for the link, Bernie.

Ed or Andy--

What are your thoughts on boot knives, or at least ankle/boot carry over in the sandbox? My brother in law mentioned that is what he is looking for before he deploys, but he knows little about knives and carrying them. I tried carrying one once when in jr. high school, before I knew better, and all I got was a blister on my ankle (I don't think belt clips are all that great for mounting on a boot). Is this a viable carry option given the sand and conditions, or should I convince him to stick with a belt/web gear carry?
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:50 PM
Kencornett Kencornett is offline
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boot knife

i dont know if boot knives are allowed, but if he wants the boot knife look what about a loveles chute style knife? it has that sleek boot knife look but will still be useable as a good everyday utility knife. just a thought. oh and like you , when i was younger i thought i would be cool to wear one.lol it left a blister from friction too!


and instead of damascus why not get some Gun-Kote and make a sand-o-flage paint job on it. make some tan and black fabric micarta scales, and call it a sand box special!

God Bless
Kenneth
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:03 PM
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I'm actually thinking of something along the lines of a Randall Model 10 Saltwater, though possibly with a 4 inch spearpoint tip. Relatively unattractive and boxy for the most part, but functional and simple. Micarta handles with Corby bolts, and thong holes fore and aft. Kind of a tactical Dadley blade.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:25 PM
BlueSkyJaunte BlueSkyJaunte is offline
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Those SpecOps sheaths are really nice. I have one I carried through some tough rides in rural Wyoming. Certainly nothing compared to what our troops deal with but it is really flexible in mounting options and the retention was great despite being tossed around on horseback for hours on end.


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Old 01-04-2008, 06:30 PM
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Does the knife need a single or double guard to be held in place by the that sheath?
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Old 01-04-2008, 06:47 PM
BlueSkyJaunte BlueSkyJaunte is offline
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Single is fine. The snap strap is adjustable, so you can get it as snug as you like.


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Old 01-04-2008, 08:02 PM
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thanks ed, i knew you would advise wisely--that sheath is the ticket i will purchase one if they still want a knife that isnt damascus. wonder if the kydex liner is removable so it could be fitted to blade to tighten things up a little, i realize you wouldnt have too but add a little custom touch thanks again bb


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Old 01-04-2008, 09:08 PM
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Sheesh......some .commanders were starting to micro-manage what you could carry back when I was wearing green (fixed blade knives had to be stored in the arms room when you wer back in the barracks, etc) but it has gotten ridiculous. As for those Spec Ops sheaths, I bought several of them and found that the "one size fits all" design means they really don't seem to fit anything well.


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Old 01-04-2008, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armory414
Thanks for the link, Bernie.

Ed or Andy--

What are your thoughts on boot knives, or at least ankle/boot carry over in the sandbox? My brother in law mentioned that is what he is looking for before he deploys, but he knows little about knives and carrying them. I tried carrying one once when in jr. high school, before I knew better, and all I got was a blister on my ankle (I don't think belt clips are all that great for mounting on a boot). Is this a viable carry option given the sand and conditions, or should I convince him to stick with a belt/web gear carry?
When I was in the Corps, the commanders on base didn't want anything not uniform showing (ie, no fixed blades on the belt). This was peacetime on Okinawa mainly. Anyway, I kept a re-worked (found with the tip broken off, re-worked it while in North Carolina) schrade hunting knife (about 3" blade) as a boot knife. Carried it that way for about a year and a half almost daily in the top of my combat boots, with my BDU legs bloused up covering the handle. No problems with it, and it was easy to get to when I wanted it.

--Carl


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Old 01-06-2008, 12:47 AM
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Cad, the liner is removeable.I fitted it to the blade I made.They are made removeable for cleaning.Also the pocket is made to hold the issued multi-tool.The ones I purchased I got off E-Bay one was $29.00 the second was $32.00. depends on who you buy from.They kick butt.Also they come in 6"& 8" length.


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