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  #1  
Old 12-03-2001, 11:31 AM
JerryO13
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New CKD buy/sell Layout


Sorry, but I don't like it. With this format I am never going to look through all the stuff, and it discourages casual looks. So unless I am looking for something specific, I'm not going to bother with this.
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2001, 12:42 PM
Don Cowles
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Jerry, I think I agree with you. The loss of the thumbnails makes browsing a real chore.
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2001, 01:17 PM
William
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Don, Jerry, I agree with you both, I like going there to see whats what, but with this layout, it's a real hassel.
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2001, 01:21 PM
Coop747
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Uggghhhhh.

Sorry, Alex. I'm certain you put a LOT of time into this, but it's going backwards. I can't imgine thumbnails taking up that much space.

What's your rationale? Slow loading? Better management? You tell us.

Coop
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2001, 01:27 PM
Brock
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Directory


I was referred to the Directory and for a moment I thought I was at the wrong address. I recall being there before and it had all of the thumbnails by the makers names. I could not find a list of makers names to click on like the other sites the Snody's referred us to had. I found my first time at this directory this morning a chore.

Brock
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2001, 02:04 PM
primos
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Re: Directory


Alex,

Unfortunately, I have to go along with the general consensus here.

In this case, a picture is definitely worth a thousand words. Nobody is going to want to go through 400-500 text descriptions in search for a knife. It's much easier to quickly skim over a bunch of thumbnails until you see a knife that interests you, then click on that for the details.

The way it is now, you have read through hundreds of descriptions with no idea what the knives look like, then click a link to get the details, and then finally click on a thumbnail within the description to see the big pic.
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2001, 02:44 PM
Gary Mulkey
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I must concur. The thumbnail photos were much preferable. Sorry Alex but I liked the old system better.

Gary Mulkey
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2001, 04:54 PM
JerryO13
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OK earlier I had nothing to add, but now .... If this is going to be text based at the top level, then it's got to have a direct link to a list of makers, so that you can look by maker. that in turn must be crosslinked to the owner or purveyor selling it. Once you hit the makers name there should be a bunch of tnumbnails to look at. There should also be a way to go from one to the next in the list. So that if I'm in full browse mode, I can go from one full sized pic to the next. Now don't get me wrong once you get to the knife itself, and you have that pic with a link to a bigger one and all the specific info. that is a well laid out individual page. It's the getting to it that's the problem.
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2001, 06:19 PM
Don Cowles
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Alex, don't be mad at us- we still love ya! Better to call it the way we see it early in the game than to grumble and gnash teeth.
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2001, 07:12 PM
JossDelage
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Ugh!


I've been working at Amazon.com 3 years, so I'm spoiled, but still, everyone can see that this design is not customer friendly. Couple of things:

1) Pics sell. I *hate* having to click on "details" to see whether I like the blade or not. I would want a vast list of thumbnails, which would allow me to only click those I might like.

2) Never, never, never have the large pic available only through pop-ups. First, I hate pop-ups with a passion. Second, you're cutting yourself from anyone who might have disabbled Java (which is a smart move if you browse a lot nowadays.) If I want the pic in a new window, I'll right-click it.

3) Pics sell. You need those thumbnails.

4) All Categories:
When I see:
CKD Available Listings
Swords/Daggers 0 to 300 (0)
Swords/Daggers 301 to 500 (4)
Swords/Daggers 501 to 750 (3)
Swords/Daggers 751 above (3)
All Categories
I expect that by clicking on "All Categories", I'll get all prices category within sword / daggers - not go back to all the different styles.

5) Have I mentioned that pics do sell?

6) Customers browse based on maker, style, price, picture. Of those, only Style, maybe the least important of those, is available immediately. Further, some of those categories are super specific (Autos) whereas others are way too wide (fixed blades) and / or unclear (where are Bowies and Fighters? In Tactical? In Fixed Blades?)

Cheers,

JD

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  #11  
Old 12-03-2001, 09:10 PM
CKDadmin
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Men, thanks for your interest in the new listing setup. I know it's a major change and probably a shock to your systems upon first inspection. There is nothing like it in this industry, so there is no prior training site or personal experience in place to help someone, like yourselves, quickly understand how powerful what you're looking at, actually is. However, 10:1 says we're fixing to change this game forever ...

In fact, we're still at work moving the listings over, so much of what you see is setup for our benefit only. We don't need to see the full ads to check whether our work is being added to the system or not. A page with running headlines is all we want for the moment, while we work. It's faster ...

I'm sure there is a lot of sound advice to be had here, but I wanted to reply before you guys went off the deep end about something you don't understand. When we complete the work and I make the "official" announcement, then you can pile on and I'll let actual live demonstrations of the programming power directly answer your questions.

As far as knowing what we're doing is concerned, you'll have to trust that I know what I'm talking about, concerning our knife selling experience and where I think the future of the CKD main listing site and system is in the best hands, programming and display-wise.

Let's all keep one thing in mind in all of this reflection ... AV won't play games when it comes to CKD business! Nothing that we do to that site is designed to move us backwards in time. However, we are not designing the new system for tire-kickers ... that's what the forum "display case" is for.

No ... this is what the new system is designed to do, and will do now ...

1) It's designed for people who are working within a budget, or looking for a specific maker's work, or new stuff based on date added, or material combo or style ... or any combination of the above.

2) It is designed to allow our listing members add their own availables directly to the system, 24/7 without the need to provide image hosting or to have us make the pages which costs time ... and to allow them to deal directly with the end buyer or interested party through the listing interface.

3) It is designed to send real buyers an immediate automatic notice ... the moment a specific type of piece is added to the CKD system, one that they can pre-define an interest in knowing about (via user agents), without having to come to the site every 20 minutes to look to see before it gets sold. [example: if someone is looking for a fixed blade in the $200 dollar range, made with 420v and having stag handles with a 3" blade ... as soon as the listing is posted, that person, or those 1000's of people using our system interested in that type of piece who are immediately notified via e-mail.] What affect do you think this will have on the experience of the qualified CKD lookers?

There is so much more to the new system that I'm not ready to go into here, but the above would be some of the aspects that the new system can address that were impossible before. Now, it's a turnkey self-service system for both buyer and seller.

Arguments about the layout, or page after page of thumbnails is of no interest at all to me. We've already had that and it's not a super-viable selling layout. Helping people avoid them on slow connections and quickly getting them to what they really want to see and learn about, pre-notifying them about what just hit and keeping it all fresh and all the old listings weeded out of their way, is.

Someone do me a favor ...

Go to the main listing page and type in "Mel Pardue Folder" and then select "All of my keywords" and hit "search" ...

... then notice they are grouped by date and accross all selling parties, collectors, dealers and by the maker himself ... If there is a Mel Pardue in the system, you're about to see them ... and only them ... and then only his folders!

If you had a "personal agent" setup on "Mel Pardue Folders" and one was added 10 seconds after you left the site, guess what ??? You won't miss out on another great chance to be the first one in the world to know about it.

See where this is all going ... ? I hope so ...

Alex
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2001, 09:42 PM
viper5192
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Ok Alex ;-)


I will trust you you have not steered me wrong, will sit back and wait for the official launch, knew you would come in and "clarify" things ;-)

I for one appreciate all you do for us!&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2001, 10:03 PM
CKDadmin
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Josh,

I appreciate the opinions ... but ...

1) 97.113 % of all visitors to the CKD are Java enabled. I have 2 years of stats to back me up. Popups on demand are not part of any general loathing equation, only non-requested popups would fit that argument. And, without Java, you are basically lost on today's internet, even in this forum. Amazon.com is loaded with Java throughout and even your homepage has a non-requested popup window forced on the visitor which I'm sure much research has gone into the fact that it's there.

2) Every listing on the CKD has a thumbnail and a detailed image included. There is not another custom knife site on the internet that has as many direct listings as the CKD with the total volume of high quality images included. If you know of one, point to it. You'd be hard pressed to point to one image on Amazon that can compete with some of the CKD's listing images.

3) As far as being user friendly is concerned ... there is no perfect interface that I know of. It is either sophisticated, complex and does it all, or is simple, static and featureless ... something in between is the mark we shoot for and then we work to train the users as to the value of learning the ropes. The same thing applies to these forum interfaces ... most people are lost the first time they visit one.

All we have to go by is our own experience ... there is no model for what we're doing in this industry. However, many among us can testify to the results we've produced in this effort we call CKD. Our name is on bottom lines all over the world.

Actually, you are dead wrong about what customers are looking for in this industry. I would tell you, but since you don't work for us, I better not However, the new system is designed to address that question first and foremost ... take that to the bank. We're not in the guessing game. That's for sure.

To address your #6 question specifically:
Go type "Bowie" and select "all of my keywords". Then, hit "search" ... simple as that.

It's simply time for the CKD main site to move forward and into the future. If we have to forge it, such is life and we're used to doing it that way. But, the end result is the mission here ... not the growing pains of change. Change is inevitable ... change is necessary to move ahead, otherwise we stay where we are. The CKD was born from a concept just like this. So far, it has met every challenge placed before it.

That's all for now ... I'll deal with the rest of you guys and your points later with the full announcement.

For a minute there I got carried away. Then I remembered, "wait a minute, who pays my salary?" Why, me, of course ... and other's too!

Man, I love the internet!

Alex
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2001, 10:30 PM
DC KNIVES
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Alex,I am not as computer savy as some of the other makers here having my first computer just over a year and being self taught,same as knives,I trust your looking out for us and know that I will be participating.None of this is easy for me,but I will learn, and all I can say to my friends and fellow makers is we give this a chance.Just my $.02,Dave Cole
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2001, 10:42 PM
ERIC ELSON
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I like it....


I just checked out the new formatt, looked good on my end.
It is VERY different from what most are used too, but that is pretty much what I've come to expect from AV

Keep up the good Work Alex,

Regards
Eric
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