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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:06 PM
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jcoon8283 jcoon8283 is offline
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Location: Tioga County, PA
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Hamon Line Troubles

Hello Folks,
First off I would like to say thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my questions. The last two batches of knives that I've done (6 knives in each batch) Have had some issues with what I call hamon line run out (think grain run out on a board). Here is an illustration showing what I'm talking about, pardon my poor paint skills lol. Illustration A show what a normal hamon generally should look like after quenching and etching a knife. Illustration B shows what is happening over my last two batches. The first of the two batches I mentioned only four knives came out like illustration B, the last batch I did all of them came out that way. Here is my set up, I'm using 1095, in a kiln not a forge, I use Parks #50 as a quenchant, and the knives go right into tempering immediately after ht. Before these two batches I've only ever had one knife do this, and I just wrote it off as being a fluke, now I cannot. The only thing that has changed about the way I do things (and I try to do things exactly the same each and every time to maintain some sort of quality control) is that these two batches, when I applied the clay to the knife, I let them air dry for a few days instead of drying them in an oven. If anyone has any idea what may be causing something like this I would love to hear about it, I'm racking my brain trying to figure this one out.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:16 PM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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My guess would be that the quench was to slow or the blade was not completely brought up to critical. Did you agitate the blades in a cutting motion when you quenched them? I've noticed that I had to use a more aggressive agitation when quenching with clay to prevent that same problem from happening.


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Old 03-03-2013, 10:01 PM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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Would it be possible to post pics of the actual knives? From your diagram I'm not following what the concern is since the shape looks like a chisel grind.

How close to the edge is your clay coat? If the clay coat is well back of the edge, but only the edge is getting fully hardened, then it may be that your blade is not fully up to temp and just the thinner section was hot enough to form martensite. Like I said, Without pics of your blades, I'm not sure what the problem is.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:18 PM
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jcoon8283 jcoon8283 is offline
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Sorry I didn't get back to you guys sooner, I was chatting about this very thing with ray in the kith chat room. Sorry about the poor paint skills, these aren't chisel ground, they are tantos, I just didn't add any plunge cut lines in the illustration, but in reality they would exist about a third of the way down the edge in the illustration. I didn't post any actual pictures because I just did a quick etch just to see where the hamons were, so it's hard to see anything clearly in pictures. It would seem by ray's suggestions that my problem was that I had the clay too close to the edges of my knives. They are only about 3/4" wide and I had clay in spots down about half way to the edge, maybe slightly less. I'm going to try reducing the clay to about a quarter of the way down and re heat treat per rays suggestion. Thanks for the input guys!!
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:19 PM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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From the info given I'd also say only the tip is reaching critical temp. Also what are you using for clay? A lot of them it is not necessary to dry over days. I use refractory cement, Satanist and sairset. Just apply it and throw in the forge. It will dry in about three seconds. In my experience and the experience of the guy that told me this trick, it actually works better than letting it dry
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:14 AM
Kostoglotov Kostoglotov is offline
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A couple of things I?d recommend
1 ? Take pictures of your clay. It?s a lot easier to look at the etched knife and the clay together to troubleshoot/figure out how you might want to change the clay in the future
2 ? If you are doing large batches of knives, check the temperature of your quenching fluid. Depending on the volume of quench fluid, you can experience temperature rise. A simple meat thermometer works well

Getting a consistency with hamon?s requires controlling all variables, minor changes can and will have profound impacts. IMO logging this data will help you refine your process much faster
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1095, apply, back, blade, blades, chisel grind, coat, edge, etch, etching, forge, hamon, heat treat, hot, knife, knives, paint, post, quenched, simple, throw


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