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The Outpost This forum is dedicated to all who share a love for, and a desire to make good knives, and have fun doing it. We represent a diverse group of smiths and knifemakers who bring numerous methods to their craft. |
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#1
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1084 Vs 1080
Went to buy some 1084 steel from my steel provider recently, and was told it was being phased out in the industry, and being replaced with 1080.
Duh...am I missing something somewhere? Now I know the difference in carbon content between the 10 series steels, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why the steel industry is making the change. The difference between 1080 and 1084 doesn't seem to be enough of a difference in carbon to warrant a change. I've always heard that 1084 is the closest living relative in the steel family to the steel that smiths of old in this country were using to make knives and tools like say back in the 1700-1800's. For people who make traditional type knives and weapons, 1084 was a staple. Does anyone have any info on this? Is there a structural advantage at play of which I am admittedly unaware, or has the design brainiac that gave us the upside down catsup bottle gone to work for the steel industry? |
#2
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Yeah the upside down ketchup bottle guy never had kids
__________________ NT Barkin Turtle Tribe ~~~Life is what it is~~~ |
#3
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Does anyone even spell it "catsup" anymore, or am I dating myself?
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#4
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Dana,
I've heard that for the last several years that our steel specs were +-5% so 1084 could be 1079 or 1089. Guess they decided to quit worrying about it. :confused: I love 1084, Admiral still has some bar stock left. |
#5
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I just got some of this from Admiral, they sold it as 1080, but when it came in it was labeled as 1075/1080, so I guess this is what they are doing. I have played with a little, but need to get up a forge to anneal and see how it heat treats. Got to stop all this working and get to some steel
--Carl |
#6
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Locally I can't get 1084 or 1095 it is now 1084/95. Seems to me on the 1084 the carbon content was .84 to almost .95%. I realy don't feel that with using 1080 your really lossing much of anything. I really don't understand the priceing on steel. When I get steel here I have to buy a whole bar and it is a bunch cheeper that way but one time I had gotten 7/8 square 1080 and it seemed high to me and the next time I got 1" square 1084/95 that seemed to almost be half the price. Maybe it was just old stock or out of a different book....
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#7
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Dana, I never liked cat soup
__________________ NT Barkin Turtle Tribe ~~~Life is what it is~~~ |
#8
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Dana I asked this over on Bladeforums since there are some of the boys over there that are really into the differences in stell including a couple of metallurgists - and got the following info:
"This is taken from the Admrial Steel Reference Guide: 1084 - C 0.80-0.94, Mn 0.60-0.90, max P 0.40, max S 0.50 1080 - C 0.74-0.88, Mn 0.60-0.90, max P 0.40, max S 0.50" Ain't a whole lot of difference there. Apparently the mills that were producing 1084 went out of business so... Here's a link to the thread if any body wants to check in later: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...19#post2333819 And catsup or ketchup I like it no matter what - homemades best but Heinz rules otherwise. __________________ Chuck Burrows Hand Crafted Leather & Frontier Knives dba Wild Rose Trading Co Durango, CO chuck@wrtcleather.com www.wrtcleather.com The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses. |
#9
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Yeah, the mills went out of business, which is a shame because the 1084 they were turning out was very clean stuff. It was also very high in Mn and i'm pretty sure other stuff, like just about all the steel made today.
I can't tell the difference between the new 1080 and the old 1084 except I've run into some inclusions that I never had with the 1084. It heat treats exactly the same for me, going non-magnetic at 1400F and getting #### hard and tough in a water quench. |
#10
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The sad fact is its probably all about money and who can make what and where the cheapest.
t |
#11
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I wonder how much of the "straight carbon steel"s from overseas? One of my paper vendors told me that for the first time since industry records have been kept that PAPER consumption dropped in the US last year. Technology changes. Pixels not pages. plus with imports of third world paper from countries that have no pollution laws; the paper mills are hurting. They close mills to save money, but that means they dont have the capacity to meet demand. etc. pretty much the same as steel. Sorry state of affairs.
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