lining the forge

[Ray Rogers]

You can't take the OPD out without replacing the whole top end (valve) with the older model. If you did that, no one would fill it any more (it's illegal now). A 100 pound tank hardly takes any more room than the little tank, a little fatter and less than 4 ft tall. A better regulator might help a little but probably not enough. Like I said, sometimes they will work but they tend to shut off your gas just when the forging gets interesting ...

[nc_cooter]

I use a 40lb propane tank for my forge and have never had a frosting problem, even in an unheated shop and using two 3/4" burners. A good regulator is a MUST.

[Omega]

would it be ok to leave the tank in a shed (no heat) and any one know where to get one kinda cheap saw one on line for 130?


bill

[Ray Rogers]

I bought my 100 lb tank from AmeriGas brand new for $95 . Mine sits outside in my smithy at -20 F, no problem....

[Raymond Richard]

Originally Posted by Omega

im using indian georges design, as of yet im just using the 1/4th tube as the outlet untill i drill a good outlet hole. i also still need to find a good regulator the one i have seems to not work the way i remember it working

bill

If your just using 1/4" tube for you gas outlet instead of the proper size hole I'd say thats your problem.

[Omega]

i was reading up on propane today is a full flow pol a good idea to use?

[Ray Rogers]

Yes, once you get rid of the OPD and have a good regulator .......

[Omega]

so what exactly does the pol do?

[Martin Brandt]

Omega, I'm using both 25 lb tanks with the new valves, and a 100 lb. bottle with the old style valve with no problem. If it's cold out and I'm forge welding for a long time, then I do have a litttle pressure loss with the small tanks, but if you just chunk it into a tub of warm water that takes care of that. I agree that you need to have an adjustable regulator. I also agree with Raymond Richard that not having an appropriate orfice may be a problem also. If you're running 1/4" tubing into your burner with no reduction then you don't have enough back pressure to operate the new propane valves . Try pinching your tubing shut at the end with the shank of an .030 drill bit in it. That should give you a useable orfice, and appropriate back pressure to get your tank valves to work. I'm using a homemade venturi burner with great success. I forge weld in my forge on a regular basis. My forge inside dimensions are: 4 1/2"x 16". I used an old 9 1/2" dia. Oxygen cylinder for a body, but in the future wouldn't use anything that thick and heavy for a forge body, just too heavy for taking to hammerins. For an orfice I'm using a Tweco .030 wire welder tip, the one with a long taper to it. That seems to be a good size for venturi burners at least. I highly recommend Ron Reil's web site for burner designs, and info. if you want to make your own, and if you have a few $ to spend you cannot do better than the T-Rex burner linked to Ron's site. I believe the 3/4" model is plenty for a knifemakers forge. They will operate down to almost 0 lbs. without fluttering out, which is very nice for heat treating, and you can crank them up til you get an almost white hot forge if you want, tho' I don't recommend that as your liner suffers, and you can burn the burner flare off as well. Also have to be careful of radiant burns to your eyes when running so hot, don't stare into forge for long periods of time any way, or get glass blowers glasses if you feel the need to stare in for very long. Glances for short periods to check progresss are no problem tho. Propane tanks should "Always " be stored outdoors as leaking propane can radidly remodel your shop. Always check your connections with a soapy water solution after assembly with pressure on, as leaks will make bubbles. Fix any before firing up. An open garage door shop could have the propane tank inside while working, but remove when done. A farrier friend of mine just made a couple or Ron's Burners, and likes them better than the ones that came on his commercial forge. Propane cost is an issue if you are forging a lot, and better venturi burners that will get you to the heat you want, at a low gas pressure with an .030 orfice will save a lot in gas over the long term. And I never have to run and elec. cord anywhere to fire up.

[Ray Rogers]

The POL is the brass part that screws into the propane tank. Some of them have restrictors inside to limit the amount of prpane that can come through and provide back pressure for the OPD. I agree 100% with Martin that the lack of back pressure is causing your problem. I also believe that a venturi burner might work better with the small tanks and OPD than a forced air burner but my venturi forge (an NC Lowboy) only wanted to work about half the time with the OPD tanks. Your forging life will be simpler if you can get rid of the OPD tanks.

I know you are a complete Newbie at building this stuff which is why I'm trying to get you to take the simplest path I can dream up. For instance, a venturi burner may work better with the OPD tanks but most guys have a LOT more trouble trying to build their first successful venturi than there first forced air burner. The burner design I used (Ron Claiborne's design) is so simple that it doesn't even need an aperture at all - no little .030 hole, no concern about back pressure either (as long as you don't have an OPD valve to screw things up). And pretty cheap to build too. That's a hard combination to beat when you're struggling to understand how this stuff works ...

[Omega]

my forge is around 13 inches deep and 10 inches wide with the inswool,,,,would one venturi burner be enough to get that to forging heat?



bill

[Ray Rogers]

Sure, if it was a big enough burner. One forced air burner would be enough too. That does seem like a pretty wide forge you have there if you mean to say it is 10" wide on the inside. Unless you plan to heat some very large pieces like maybe a battle axe head or something, it would be more efficient if you could reduce the diameter. On the other hand, since you don't have a working burner yet, you probably should worry about that after you find out how it works now with whatever burner you finally get working...

[Omega]

i made it that big because i plan on trying some blacksmithing too like metal bed post and what not so i wanted to be able to fit spirals and what not......when you say if the burner is big enough do you mean the outlet size?

also i want to take this time to really thank everyone who has been taking the time to help me, i knopw you all have your own things to do and and i trully appreciate you giving me a few moments of insight and help

bill

[Ray Rogers]

By 'big enough' I just mean that if the burner can pass a large enough volume of burning gas into the forge fast enough then you'll be able to get enough heat. By that definition, if the burner were 'big enough' you could heat a box car to critical!

In plain English, there probably isn't anyone on this forum - or at least we haven't heard from them up until now - who can truly tell you with certainty what 'big enough' is for that forge or any other forge except in terms of the burners and forges that they themselves have built. . Most likely, there are more than one burner in several sizes and types that would all do just fine. Some might take a little longer to reach critical temp than others and some might be less effiicient than others but many different burners would get the job done.

I can say that one of the forced air burners that I use would do it pretty well. I can say that because my forge was about that size at one point. First, you need to get a burner working - any burner. Then try it. If it's 'big enough' that's great and you're done. If not, add a second burner .......

[Omega]

not sure if this question has an answer but....if my forge is 1040 cubic inches how big will my burner have to be to use just one.........

bill