Standards of excellence

[Phillip Jones]

That is a tough one to answer.

Steel quality or blade geometry?

If I had a choice I'd pick both.

... sometimes the questions are more important than the answers.

[Davis]

Geometry.

Questions are important. Here are some:
Why did the switch on the belt grinder die tonight?
Because I wired it ...

Who said copper is soft?
It is not.

Who said guards were easy?
They are not.

Who thought using the old bench grinder would be a good idea?
Me.
I was wrong.

Who said you need all the skin on your knuckles?
Really, I need to know this one.

Chuck, a *g* is for a *grin* I grin a lot. Usually ...

Can I change my answer, Tai?
It's steel .. No, it's heat-teat ..

Whatever it is, it's not copper ...

bahhhhh,
Trish

... vibrations!

[DiamondG Knives]

Trish, Im sorry to hear that you have my kind of luck lately!
The good thing is your grinning!

I really belive that a good grin is needed at least once in every hour!!

Hope things go better for you!

And by the way, please excuse my manners!

Welcome to the Outpost!

Mike

[DiamondG Knives]

This could be a "chicken or the Egg " discussion, but here goes.

I feel that the steel type and the proper heat treatment is the key,

Although a properly heat treated tool steel with poor edge geometry will still cut, and keep it's edge, It will not cut as effectivly as one made with the correct geometry. But without the proper steel, that has been properly heat treated, the perfect edge geometry will fail every time.

Just my brain droppings as George Carlin would say.

Mike

Those are good answers, but I was looking more for the essense of "knifehood", rather than what makes a better knife. To me a knife is defined by geometry regardless of the material, intended use or non-use. A piece of glass could become a knife if used to cut. Non-functional and cerimonial knives are not made to cut, but they have an edge, and recognizable knife geometry.

[Keith Montgomery]

Of steel, heat treat and blade geometry, my opinion is that the last two are the most important. It doesn't matter how great a steel you use, if the heat treat is poor you are going to have a poor blade. If the geometry is wrong you are going to end up with a knife that will not properly do the job intended. Of course, the proper size and shape to do the job intended doesn't hurt either.

I have seen some great knives made with simple steels like 1045.


Edited to correct a couple of typos.

[Davis]

Think of flint and obsidian knives, it's the geometry that's essential.

Thanks, Mike I like it here, easy & relaxed, learn stuff all the time.... they say (who the hell are "they" anyhow?) it is easier to learn when one is relaxed...

Tai, your trick for using copper sheet to clean files works a charm, thanks!
I used an old bit of car door-guard to make it easier to handle.

Dana, I'm going to follow your suggestion to anneal and quench this copper and see what happens.. shame it won't *blow up*. I am just the teeeniest bit of a fire-bug... *g*

later, fellas,
Trish

Cool, glad it helped.

[Stormcrow]

Not exactly sure if this is what is being asked, but here goes:

There was an issue in Blade a while back about bolomakers on an island in the Pacific (can't remember what ethnic group it is that makes bolos...) who were forging their blades out of truck leaf springs. They would hammer them out as quick as they could go, trimming off peices with a hot cut and an electric bench grinder. When finished, they would burn on the handle.

These bolos were everyday tools, and about every other person you met had one. They were kept in wooden scabbards with *a hole in the end so that the water could drain out*!

The ones this shop was turning out had hammer marks and grinder scratches all up and down the length of the blade. But their form flowed, and they looked like wonderful tools. The handles appeared too small for my hand, but that could be easily changed.

The guy who wrote the article remarked that his first impression upon seeing the finish was one of "base crudity" (don't have the exact quote, but I *know* he used the words in quotations). He was surprised at what a good tool it turned out to be upon actually using it.

I was surprised. Anyone (I think) who had done much work at all with a large machete-sized blade could look at them and see what a good tool they were (assuming their heat treatment and edge were right, whcih they apparently were). But this fellow writing the article saw only that it was not finished finely. Remember: their scabbards have a drainage hole. Reckon how long a shiny finish would last in that environment? He was surprised when they performed well.

To me, it is the usefullness of a knife that holds the greatest measure of its worth. If it works well and is comfortable in your hand, then it has met the standard of excellence I deem most important. If it is nicely finished with expensive materials, that is ok, but I want it to work well first.

[MongoForge]

The article was about
the Filipino's..
They are great knifemakers..
Ive been to the country and
a good knife would
be essential for survival..

Here's this link again with the Philipino knives and the "hikot" scabbards, like the bush knives I've been making.
http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/ifugao/index.html