ABS Membership...

[Tai Google]

Here's another funny truth,... looking back,... in order to find my own way, my own path in bladesmithing, I had to learn to "un-learn" much of what I was taught in school.

[raker]

Sort of like trying to figure out which "truths of bladesmithing" to believe when reading some of the forums on the net. Advice from a respected maker is "supposed" to be accurate. In the end, our journey through life in quest of knowledge is a never ending trip. Some of us will never reach the end and some of us will be one the journey longer due to the mis information. That is some of what we unlearn, or discard. I always figured that if I knew about a mistake, that would help me on the way to making one less. In a few societies, that is why the elders had a lot of respect. They were supposed to be smarter but not necessarily so. A few may have been stuck in the middle of the jouryey.

[Tai Google]

I think we are all conditioned to be too "goal" oriented.

I think a wise philosophy is,... not to do it for the rewards, but for the pure enjoyment of the process. You can't go wrong that way, and if you can do it and stay true to yourself,... the rewards will come automatically. Trust me on this...

It's a life long journey of self discovery...
... never ending, never complete...

Maybe that should be the "real goal".

[TimLively]

Peace Brothers!
I was in the ABS in 2001 and then dropped out for some of the same reasons expressed here. I was under the impression that they were a bunch of rednecks protecting thier way of knifemaking and being territorial but I dont see it that way anymore. I wear my heart on my sleeve all too often and it gets me into big trouble on the forums but recently I had a bunch of the ABS veteran makers come to my aid in a dispute over patents. That made me rethink the organization and I now feel that its not about the organization, its about the people in it. As artisans we are a free thinking independent bunch of folks so its only natural for us to butt heads. Its also natural for us to bond together to give us power in unity but its always been a struggle through out history to hold such independence together. On one hand we want to unite the clans but on the other we want freedom more than anything. Catch 22. Today I want to be a part of something. Tomorrow I might tell them to take a flying leap. Oh well. whatever. Life is friggin weird.

i was a junkman selling you cars
washing your windows and shining your stars
thinking your mind was my own in a dream
what would you wonder and how would it seem
living in castles a bit at a time
the king started laughing and talking in rhyme

[Tai Google]

Hey! Howdy Tim. Thanks for the insight.
Good to see you back at the "Outpost" bro.

[TimLively]

Thanks for inviting me back Brother. You look good with a beard.

I use to play in a metalsmith band
but we broke up
we were young and we were wild
it ate us up
now im not saying who was right or wrong

Id like to see those guys again
and give it a shot
maybe now we can show the world
what weve got
but id just like to play for the fun we had

Buffalo Springfield Again!

[Tai Google]

LOL
The beard's not real, but thanks!

... keep the poetry coming bro.

[Carey Quinn]

I can't tell you guys how happy it makes me to see two old friends shake hands. I admire the work that you each produce and feel that I have learned from both of you and appreciate your continued teaching. Only good can come from the rejoining of the clans.

Who knows, one day there might even be something like a 'Lively Wild Rose' collaboration.

Just ramblin'.
Carey

[Sandy Morrissey]

Tai, my friend, using MM after your name can't hurt you! I use it as my maker's mark on my leather work and it hasn't hurt me!!! Sandy

[GHEzell]

Originally Posted by TimLively

That made me rethink the organization and I now feel that its not about the organization, its about the people in it. As artisans we are a free thinking independent bunch of folks so its only natural for us to butt heads. Its also natural for us to bond together to give us power in unity but its always been a struggle through out history to hold such independence together. On one hand we want to unite the clans but on the other we want freedom more than anything.

Well said.

[TimLively]

Art is the only form of anarchy that works. As soon as an organization tells artisans how to make their art it becomes less than art. My feelings about any organizations seem to change from day to day. I see the benefits but also the failings and both are legitimate.

I guess the only reason I rejoined the ABS is to be a part of something. The comradery of artisans. I dont even like mirror or hand rubbed finishes on knives. To me it seems unpractical and gimmicky. Thats what I would have to make to get my Journeyman stamp though. I detest damascus for the same reasons. To me its just commercial hipe and doesnt produce a better blade. But thats what I will have to make to get my Mastersmith stamp with the ABS. So I dont know if I will even make it to Journeyman status. Im probably not what they want as a member and my reasons for becoming a member are pretty flimsy.

I really believe most smiths join the ABS to be recognized. A way to seperate themselves from the faces in the crowd. I also think they feel it will bring them a bigger price tag on their work and they are probably right. Peer pressure and snobbery still rules the day in this world and most collectors need to be told what art is and dont have the ability to see what it takes for an artisan to be original. Did you know that Van Gogh sold only one of his paintings during his lifetime? Collectors dont buy art until the critics (or organizations) tell them its art. That makes it a difficult call for most makers. Do I stand as an individual and make less money or play the game and be recognized?

[TimLively]

Originally Posted by raker

Sort of like trying to figure out which "truths of bladesmithing" to believe when reading some of the forums on the net. Advice from a respected maker is "supposed" to be accurate. In the end, our journey through life in quest of knowledge is a never ending trip. Some of us will never reach the end and some of us will be one the journey longer due to the mis information. That is some of what we unlearn, or discard. I always figured that if I knew about a mistake, that would help me on the way to making one less. In a few societies, that is why the elders had a lot of respect. They were supposed to be smarter but not necessarily so. A few may have been stuck in the middle of the jouryey.

Im definately stuck in the middle of the journey. I wish I wasnt but it sure seems that I am. I look at people like Carlos Santana and how his dad handed him a guitar and it just became his life's pursuit and passion. What a blessing. I constantly struggle with my own identity so how can I possibly offer anyone advice? I have always been able to see the big picture as to where my beliefs stand with my Creator but the day to day stuff is a mystery to me. I heard a Native American elder once say - "We should each be our own leader". What I got from that was that each of us should judge the information we get on its own merit instead of excepting what people say as truth just because those people are well respected. Think for yourself but have an open mind for council.

[Bob Hartman]

Originally Posted by TimLively

I really believe most smiths join the ABS to be recognized. A way to seperate themselves from the faces in the crowd. I also think they feel it will bring them a bigger price tag on their work and they are probably right. Peer pressure and snobbery still rules the day in this world and most collectors need to be told what art is and dont have the ability to see what it takes for an artisan to be original. Did you know that Van Gogh sold only one of his paintings during his lifetime? Collectors dont buy art until the critics (or organizations) tell them its art. That makes it a difficult call for most makers. Do I stand as an individual and make less money or play the game and be recognized?

You nailed it there Tim. If you want to sell knives the ABS is a pretty good way to go. In six years, or less, a person can become a "Master" knifesmith, and get crazy money for his knives, or he can build a reputation over many years, and still get less for his work.
I'm not so sure about the snobbery. A beautiful looking knife can be made from A36.
The ABS as a Guild can at least tell the buyer "if you buy a Journeyman's or Master's knife we can tell you that he, or she, passed these tests, and met certain guidlines".
I've been an Apprentice for about five years now, and really don't know if I'll ever test for the Journeyman stamp, it's not that important, but I do like the ABS. I think they are still the premier bladesmithing organization. Nobody else works harder at promoting the forged blade through classes, hammer-ins, and youth groups.
Bob

[Dickie Robinson]

Originally Posted by Tai Google

I think Ed and Chuck said it right. If you want to join the A.B.S. then join,... if not then don't. There are other alternatives.

However, trying to change an organization from the inside, doesn't always work. I tried that at some of the public schools.

I think a little pressure on the A.B.S from the "outside" is a good thing and may actually encourage some changes.

... but as it has been mentioned, the A.B.S. still considers me an associate member.

I guess that means I am on the "inside"... hee hee hee

i just read the ABS member directory and could not find you name anywhere in the associate member list. i guess that means your are on the out.

[Tai Google]

... Just as well...