MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Damascus Forum

The Damascus Forum The art and study of Damascus steel making.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-07-2005, 12:00 PM
Wiggins Wiggins is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 159
Thumbs up Bubble Alumina

We had an informal hammerin at my shop this weekend, and I had just re-lined my big forge. Darren Ellis had given me some bubble alumina to try so he could get some feedback before he started selling the stuff. We had both heard that it was very flux-resistant. We ran the forge pretty hard for two days. After a bunch of forging, and several pieces of damascus,(and three pieces of cable) there was no damage to the floor of the forge. No flux made it past the bubble alumina in the bottom of the forge. Everyone there agreed that it was a great product. It will certainly prolong the life of a gas forge lining, when you are making damascus. If anyone else has used it, I would like to hear how it worked for them.
Thanks, Bill
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-07-2005, 01:51 PM
rhrocker's Avatar
rhrocker rhrocker is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Uvalde, Texas
Posts: 3,117
WOW! HEY! Darren, put me down for some of that stuff!!!


__________________
Robert Hensarling
Uvalde, Texas




Hensarling Custom Knives

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-07-2005, 05:37 PM
Cadillac Forge's Avatar
Cadillac Forge Cadillac Forge is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: joplin,mo.
Posts: 207
bubble

is this bubble Alumina the same as''Mizzou 3000 degree F, High Alumina Castable Refractory that is listed at his website in 30# bags?? how much did ya use to do the floor
in your forge? trying to get an idea will 30# be enough to do a floor once or 5 times.


__________________
today, i am becoming who i once dreamed to be.
www.cadillacforge.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-07-2005, 07:30 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 890
Hi Bill, Thanks for the feedback! I'm pretty impressed with this stuff so far.

Bill had lined the floors of two vertical forges with this material. He had tried to get it to stick to the Satanite top-coat on the vertical faces of the inside of the forge, but it didn't seem to want to stick to Satanite. I've heard of others who have applied it directly to the Inswool around the doors of vertical forges and it adhered well and resists the flux that spatters around the doors sometimes. This might also be a good material to line the floor of a horizontal forge that has an Inswool liner in it.

So far, this stuff seems to be pretty good at resisting flux, especially when used in a forge lined with Inswool. The flux didn't eat through the Inswool on the floor of the forge Bill lined...he had two inches of Inswool in there and this seemed to stop the flux.

I'm going to start carrying this material now that I've gotten some feedback on how well it works. It's not cheap, but if this weekend is any indication, it works. A 5 pound bag sells for $25 and it can be shipped via USPS flat rate envelope for $3.85. I don't have it listed on my website yet, but will be adding it during the next update, so in the interim, if anyone wants some, shoot me an email.



-Darren


__________________
Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies
Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com

Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages
ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-07-2005, 07:53 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerknives
is this bubble Alumina the same as''Mizzou 3000 degree F, High Alumina Castable Refractory that is listed at his website in 30# bags??

It's not the same as Mizzou. Castable refractory resists flux very well, but you're making a trade-off when you use it. Castable refractory invariably transfers heat to the forge shell more than Inswool, and hence, is not as efficient as Inswool liners. When using a castable refractory such as Mizzou, you make the trade-off of a more robust forge for one that is less efficient and uses more fuel. Some will try to argue this point, but there is no getting around the physics of heat transfer. All you have to do is study the data sheets from the various manufacturers to see the difference. I'm not personally saying one is better than the other, each end user has to make that determination for themselves.

The Bubble Alumina refractory seems to be a nice addition to ones arsenal for an all Inswool lined forge. Inswool is a better insulator than castable refractory, but it lacks the robustness of a castable (i.e., flux eats through it like cotton candy). It is, however, more efficient on the fuel used by your burner. So far, the Bubble Alumina seems to hold up well to flux, and seems to be a good addition for a forge lined with Inswool that will be used for forge welding.

Building a forge is all about engineering trade-offs. Each person has to determine which trade-offs are best suited for their application and pocketbook. I don't like to lean in one particular direction or the other, it all depends on your application. The one thing I will definitely commit to is that you should line your forge with quality refractory whether it be castable or Inswool. You'll pay for it now or pay for it later in either relining costs or fuel consumption. All Ceramic Fiber blankets are not created equal, so a bargain lining material may not really be a bargain...there have been discussions about this fact on this and other forums in the past. Also, using a home-made refractory mix is almost always a waste of your time and money. I can't tell you how many people I get orders from who tried a home-made refractory mix and found it to not work well for them just to have to turn around and spend more money for the real thing.

Sorry "killerknives" i didn't mean to hop up on a soapbox in response to your question, but these are some thoughts I've had in mind for a while now and it just seemed like a good time to get them out.




-Darren


__________________
Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies
Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com

Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages
ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-08-2005, 04:35 AM
Mark Williams's Avatar
Mark Williams Mark Williams is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On a mountain in SW Va
Posts: 288
Where's mine?


__________________
I am smiling
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-09-2005, 08:07 PM
DiamondG Knives's Avatar
DiamondG Knives DiamondG Knives is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dardanelle, Arkansas
Posts: 2,101
Send a message via Yahoo to DiamondG Knives
Darren

I have one of Bowies forges waiting on me, How much of it would you think would be needed to coat one that size?? Also, do you coat the whole interior, or just the bottom?
Im at Watts Bar till the 21st, and would like to drop by and get some goodies. But Im working nights and have sat nite off. Would you be apposed to someone stopping by say around 7pm on a sat to pick up an order? If not, I can stop by on the way home.

REALLY excited about this stuff potential!!

God Bless
Mike


__________________
"I cherish the Hammer of Thor, but I praise the hand of God"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-09-2005, 08:30 PM
Ron Claiborne Ron Claiborne is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: knoxville Tn.
Posts: 348
Send a message via AIM to Ron Claiborne Send a message via Yahoo to Ron Claiborne
[
I two was very impressed with this stuff it is with out a doubt the best I have seen I have used hard fire brick for years in forges and it holds up better than anything I have ever used to resist the effects of flux till I got to work over this Bubble Alumina .

I was very impressed , as has been told we worked this forge for two days almost nonstop the floor was coated with it and showed no response to the flux and I would say we went through a lot of flux and we were not trying to prove it good or bad we just got to see the results and im going to us it if Darren starts carrying it
and I hope you will Darren

And Bill thanks for the great hospitality had a great time and learned a lot
bowie 4 days damascus free


__________________
Bowie
Thunder Mountain Forge

Last edited by Ron Claiborne; 03-09-2005 at 08:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-10-2005, 07:07 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondG Knives
Darren

I have one of Bowies forges waiting on me, How much of it would you think would be needed to coat one that size?? Also, do you coat the whole interior, or just the bottom?
Im at Watts Bar till the 21st, and would like to drop by and get some goodies. But Im working nights and have sat nite off. Would you be apposed to someone stopping by say around 7pm on a sat to pick up an order? If not, I can stop by on the way home.

REALLY excited about this stuff potential!!

God Bless
Mike

Hi Mike,

You're welcome to drop by any time you like buddy! I look forward to seeing you! I'll be out of town from tomorrow until Mid next week, so Saturday the 19th might be a good time drop by. Shoot me an email with the things you want to pick up and I'll make sure I've got it in when you get here...



-Darren


__________________
Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies
Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com

Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages
ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-10-2005, 07:11 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Claiborne
[
I two was very impressed with this stuff it is with out a doubt the best I have seen I have used hard fire brick for years in forges and it holds up better than anything I have ever used to resist the effects of flux till I got to work over this Bubble Alumina .

I was very impressed , as has been told we worked this forge for two days almost nonstop the floor was coated with it and showed no response to the flux and I would say we went through a lot of flux and we were not trying to prove it good or bad we just got to see the results and im going to us it if Darren starts carrying it
and I hope you will Darren

And Bill thanks for the great hospitality had a great time and learned a lot
bowie 4 days damascus free

Hi Ron,

I was pretty impressed after this past weekend as well! I was fluxing the heck out of those three billets of cable I welded up. I look forward to others using it and getting more feedback as well. It looks like I'll be carrying this material, I've sold out of my initial stock and am waiting for another shipment to arrive...hopefully be here next week sometime. Once I get that in, I'll update my website to reflect it on there as well.



-Darren


__________________
Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies
Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com

Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages
ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-11-2005, 11:33 AM
SteveA SteveA is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 124
Darren,

If y'all will be at Batson's (April 1,2,3) again this year... could you bring some of this stuff? And some ITC-100?

Thanks,

Steve


__________________
Steve
Sojourner Forge
www.sojournerforge.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-11-2005, 10:11 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveA
Darren,

If y'all will be at Batson's (April 1,2,3) again this year... could you bring some of this stuff? And some ITC-100?

Thanks,

Steve
Hi Steve, Sure can, shoot me an email with what materials you want and quantities, and we'll set your order aside for you. Looking forward to Batson's this year!

-Darren


__________________
Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies
Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com

Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages
ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-02-2005, 01:40 AM
BillFoote BillFoote is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Quinlan, Tx
Posts: 49
How does it compare to ITC-100? Is it an infrared reflector? Is it a slurry that can be brushed or sprayed onto inswool like ITC-100? Is it more durable than ITC-100 (you can poke a hole in ITC if you're not careful).
Thanks
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
forge, forging, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved