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The Damascus Forum The art and study of Damascus steel making. |
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#1
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Bubble Alumina
We had an informal hammerin at my shop this weekend, and I had just re-lined my big forge. Darren Ellis had given me some bubble alumina to try so he could get some feedback before he started selling the stuff. We had both heard that it was very flux-resistant. We ran the forge pretty hard for two days. After a bunch of forging, and several pieces of damascus,(and three pieces of cable) there was no damage to the floor of the forge. No flux made it past the bubble alumina in the bottom of the forge. Everyone there agreed that it was a great product. It will certainly prolong the life of a gas forge lining, when you are making damascus. If anyone else has used it, I would like to hear how it worked for them.
Thanks, Bill |
#2
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WOW! HEY! Darren, put me down for some of that stuff!!!
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#3
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bubble
is this bubble Alumina the same as''Mizzou 3000 degree F, High Alumina Castable Refractory that is listed at his website in 30# bags?? how much did ya use to do the floor
in your forge? trying to get an idea will 30# be enough to do a floor once or 5 times. |
#4
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Hi Bill, Thanks for the feedback! I'm pretty impressed with this stuff so far.
Bill had lined the floors of two vertical forges with this material. He had tried to get it to stick to the Satanite top-coat on the vertical faces of the inside of the forge, but it didn't seem to want to stick to Satanite. I've heard of others who have applied it directly to the Inswool around the doors of vertical forges and it adhered well and resists the flux that spatters around the doors sometimes. This might also be a good material to line the floor of a horizontal forge that has an Inswool liner in it. So far, this stuff seems to be pretty good at resisting flux, especially when used in a forge lined with Inswool. The flux didn't eat through the Inswool on the floor of the forge Bill lined...he had two inches of Inswool in there and this seemed to stop the flux. I'm going to start carrying this material now that I've gotten some feedback on how well it works. It's not cheap, but if this weekend is any indication, it works. A 5 pound bag sells for $25 and it can be shipped via USPS flat rate envelope for $3.85. I don't have it listed on my website yet, but will be adding it during the next update, so in the interim, if anyone wants some, shoot me an email. -Darren __________________ Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com |
#5
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Quote:
It's not the same as Mizzou. Castable refractory resists flux very well, but you're making a trade-off when you use it. Castable refractory invariably transfers heat to the forge shell more than Inswool, and hence, is not as efficient as Inswool liners. When using a castable refractory such as Mizzou, you make the trade-off of a more robust forge for one that is less efficient and uses more fuel. Some will try to argue this point, but there is no getting around the physics of heat transfer. All you have to do is study the data sheets from the various manufacturers to see the difference. I'm not personally saying one is better than the other, each end user has to make that determination for themselves. The Bubble Alumina refractory seems to be a nice addition to ones arsenal for an all Inswool lined forge. Inswool is a better insulator than castable refractory, but it lacks the robustness of a castable (i.e., flux eats through it like cotton candy). It is, however, more efficient on the fuel used by your burner. So far, the Bubble Alumina seems to hold up well to flux, and seems to be a good addition for a forge lined with Inswool that will be used for forge welding. Building a forge is all about engineering trade-offs. Each person has to determine which trade-offs are best suited for their application and pocketbook. I don't like to lean in one particular direction or the other, it all depends on your application. The one thing I will definitely commit to is that you should line your forge with quality refractory whether it be castable or Inswool. You'll pay for it now or pay for it later in either relining costs or fuel consumption. All Ceramic Fiber blankets are not created equal, so a bargain lining material may not really be a bargain...there have been discussions about this fact on this and other forums in the past. Also, using a home-made refractory mix is almost always a waste of your time and money. I can't tell you how many people I get orders from who tried a home-made refractory mix and found it to not work well for them just to have to turn around and spend more money for the real thing. Sorry "killerknives" i didn't mean to hop up on a soapbox in response to your question, but these are some thoughts I've had in mind for a while now and it just seemed like a good time to get them out. -Darren __________________ Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com |
#6
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Where's mine?
__________________ I am smiling |
#7
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Darren
I have one of Bowies forges waiting on me, How much of it would you think would be needed to coat one that size?? Also, do you coat the whole interior, or just the bottom? Im at Watts Bar till the 21st, and would like to drop by and get some goodies. But Im working nights and have sat nite off. Would you be apposed to someone stopping by say around 7pm on a sat to pick up an order? If not, I can stop by on the way home. REALLY excited about this stuff potential!! God Bless Mike __________________ "I cherish the Hammer of Thor, but I praise the hand of God" |
#8
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[
I two was very impressed with this stuff it is with out a doubt the best I have seen I have used hard fire brick for years in forges and it holds up better than anything I have ever used to resist the effects of flux till I got to work over this Bubble Alumina . I was very impressed , as has been told we worked this forge for two days almost nonstop the floor was coated with it and showed no response to the flux and I would say we went through a lot of flux and we were not trying to prove it good or bad we just got to see the results and im going to us it if Darren starts carrying it and I hope you will Darren And Bill thanks for the great hospitality had a great time and learned a lot bowie 4 days damascus free __________________ Bowie Thunder Mountain Forge Last edited by Ron Claiborne; 03-09-2005 at 08:38 PM. |
#9
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Quote:
Hi Mike, You're welcome to drop by any time you like buddy! I look forward to seeing you! I'll be out of town from tomorrow until Mid next week, so Saturday the 19th might be a good time drop by. Shoot me an email with the things you want to pick up and I'll make sure I've got it in when you get here... -Darren __________________ Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com |
#10
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Quote:
Hi Ron, I was pretty impressed after this past weekend as well! I was fluxing the heck out of those three billets of cable I welded up. I look forward to others using it and getting more feedback as well. It looks like I'll be carrying this material, I've sold out of my initial stock and am waiting for another shipment to arrive...hopefully be here next week sometime. Once I get that in, I'll update my website to reflect it on there as well. -Darren __________________ Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com |
#11
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Darren,
If y'all will be at Batson's (April 1,2,3) again this year... could you bring some of this stuff? And some ITC-100? Thanks, Steve |
#12
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Quote:
-Darren __________________ Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com |
#13
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How does it compare to ITC-100? Is it an infrared reflector? Is it a slurry that can be brushed or sprayed onto inswool like ITC-100? Is it more durable than ITC-100 (you can poke a hole in ITC if you're not careful).
Thanks |
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forge, forging, knives |
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