80CrV2....?

[Dana Acker]

Gobekli Tepe in Turkey shows overwhelmingly that there was complex civilization around 12,000 years ago (9600 BC--7300 BC). There was impressive stone architecture, carvings of animals, some extinct, and at some point the inhabitants completely buried the entire complex (which was vast) in dirt, and for reasons unknown, abandoned the site. It was discovered fairly recently by a Turkish farmer kicking rocks in his field, and formal excavations began in 1995.

But until then the thought was that civilization began about 5,000 years ago in Sumeria. So all the scientists and archaeologists and historians had to radically rethink the origins of civilization, and what that meant. I think the same probably applies to what we refer to as the iron Age, and other ages for that fact.

Our knowledge is only as good as that which we can see, touch or read. There's probably numerous paradigm changing things yet to be found that will alter lots of that which we believe to be the current dominant thought. Pays to keep an open mind.

[Tai Google]

I'm still waiting for "civilization" to begin...

[Dana Acker]

Hang in there, old Biddy, we might bring it to bear yet. What do you reckon might happen if all the smiths on this forum made knives and gave them to people they didn't like, or agree with? There is something civilized about doing good to one's enemy, real or perceived. Peace through knifesmithing.

[Tai Google]

... I'll know we're civilized once women have the same freedom as men to show their nipples in public.

Besides that, all I can say is,... a shirt and shoes doth not a civilized man make. LOL

[Dana Acker]

Civilized? What's that?

[Tai Google]

Don't worry about it bro, it's still a ways off.

[Dana Acker]

Whew, you had me worried for a minute.

[jimmontg]

I'm a big Bible history buff. They found King Solomon's Mines and smelters back in the 1950s and they used the desert wind channeled into smelters for iron and bronze as both ores were found down in the Red Sea area. I'm working off memory now. But House Of David has been found on several artefacts so he was a real historical person. So at least 1000 BC they had Iron from the Philistines.
Heck they even found the crossing spot of the Red Sea, nice long video on YouTube about it based on some dangerous research in hostile Muslim areas. Here's a nice video about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzb2Rxt6o0A

[Dana Acker]

Quite interesting. This is addressed to Tai, do you know when in history, and where in the world carbon was first added to iron to make steel? We know the Japanese were making steel as the Koto period of katanas began about 800 AD, so I figure they had the technique down before that. And, they were layering steel as well. But where did steel begin?

[Tai Google]

I don't know right off hand, but think that smelted iron had varying amounts of carbon in it. When it was purposefully added is another question.

[Crex]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that all iron that was smelted had carbon in it at pretty high percentages. As Tai mentioned, not sure if they bothered to "measure" the amount at first, but just part of the smelting process due to the early methodology used. The addition of sand (silica) is what turned it into steel. Most iron found today whether wrought or cast, has a very high carbon content compared to most steels.
Like I said correct me if I'm wrong, I surely wasn't around when they got the wild hair to start smelting raw metal ore.

[Dana Acker]

I believe you’re on to something, Carl. I read somewhere that cast iron was something like 4.0% carbon. Once I found some cast iron balls, a little bigger than marbles. When I heated one of them and hit it with a hammer it was like forging an egg shell, it just shattered.

Years ago you could tell the pot smokers from all the little burn holes in their shirt from exploding seeds. When I hit that ball it was like the flaming flux that sprays out when forge welding, or more like hundreds of flaming BB’s exiting the barrel of a sawed off shotgun at close range. It took a while to convince everyone that it was really just a forge incident, and that I wasn’t smoking weed in the shop.

You know it was probably just a couple of guys at the smelter trying for extra points, seeing if they could throw their chicken bones from lunch and land them in the crucible. “Mine went in; two points!”

And that, my friends, “...is the rest of the story.” How many other major events in history, weren’t the result of genius and endeavor, but more a case of, “Here, hold my beer while I....” and it just happened to work out favorably?*