Randall Bore No 12: "Prehistoric Hunter"

[BoBlade]

Most of you guys know that I primarily collect old Hunters, and when DirtyWater came up with this one from the Orlando area, I had to have it. Period!

The closest it comes to any Randall I?ve seen is the one in Mr. Hunt?s second book on page 21 owned by Mr. George Torres, but there are still some significant differences. Bob?s initial comment on page 20 of his text reads ?Some knives are easier to identify than others are: this is one of the others?! I sent Bob some pics and while he describes the blade as ?prehistoric?, he believes it is an earlier hunter style made during the latter war years that predates the revised post war design.

However, I have never seen a butt cap with a thong hole associated with a stamp placed that far out on a knife. This leads me to believe that the blade ?may? have been forged and ground in the very early 40?s and then handled and sheathed in the mid 40?s. Some other indications are:
1. The hilt is ?canted forward? as with late 30?s / early 40?s knives. Very early Moore and Heiser sheaths had an angled throat to accommodate this feature.
2. The choil is very small and double cut (I have only seen one other knife that is not late 30?s / early 40?s having a double choil cut and that is another old hunter owned by George. Rhett wrote that knife up in RKS newsletter issue 53 dated February, 2002. He also posted a photo of that choil on Bladeforums in early January of this year. I have pasted a copy further down and that knife is the 2nd from the left. However, that knife has the post war blade redesign and the choil cuts have a much a larger radius).
An acknowledged weak and possibly far fetched theory I have for the knife being put away for several years after it was partially made is that the stamp was struck at an angle such that the ?Randall Made? portion was not legible. I don?t think Bo minded ?weak? stamps going out the door as long as the maker was still identifiable. It is well known that Bo ?never threw anything away?, so when a local guy (possibly a friend) asked to have a hunter made in ?44, 45 or early ?46, Bo dug out the old blade with soldered hilt. We will never know for sure, but I will be mailing some photos to Mr. Gaddis in the near future and I?ll follow up here with his opinion.

As with many early / mid 40?s knives, this one exhibits some telltale signs of the maker not having the luxury of time, refined techniques or more sophisticated equipment to create perfection as we know it today coming out of the shop (something I have previously termed ?Randall Character?). Note:
1. The irregular ?rounding off? of what was originally a double hilt.
2. Casting voids in the lower quillion.
3. Uneven grinding on the face of the hilt.
4. The irregular rounding of the Duralumin butt.

I want to talk a bit about sheaths now. Prior to running into this knife, I had pretty much convinced myself that Heiser did not have a pattern for a hunter during the war years. I based this on the fact that the only three WWII hunters that I had ever seen were paired with CJ Moore sheaths (The one on page 68 of Mr. Gaddis? book and the two others I have in my collection). This one came with a riveted black button Heiser stamped ?6? on the back. While Heiser hunter sheaths also had these same features from mid ?45 through mid ?46, this one does not have the ?wide mouth? found on most post war through ?47 Heiser sheaths. I have included a photo comparison of the two so you can see what I?m talking about. Bottom line is that the jury is still out in my mind on this issue. I?m just going to have to do some more research.

Anyway, I hope you guys enjoy the pics and write up.

Best,

Ron

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[tunefinK]

Ron,

Looking at the knives on page 50 of Gaddis' book sure makes this knife look like a 1940 blade..... or older.

The commando grind may have hung around a while, but the choil cut is not mid 40's.

Great find......

Congratulations.

[Moosehead]

Congratulations Ron! And hats off to Scott for alerting you to this exceptional find.

This knife speaks volumes of Randall history, and the fact that it is such an"odd duckling" really makes it a fascinating piece. If only it could speak.

However, your theory about it being a very early forged blade that Bo threw in a drawer where it never received the knifemaker's attention until several years later makes a lot of sense.

This "mystery" knife sure makes a fantastic addition to your gang of early "Hunters"

Cheers!

David

P.S. Super photos too!

[BoBlade]

Tune / Moosebreath: Thanks! I don't have my Gaddis book handy, but I think I remember that Bo got his 1st stamp in 1940. If so, it can't be any earlier than that. We'll never really know for sure if it's an earlier blade, and that's just part and parcel of the "Randall mystique". Even if you were to find this transaction in Bo's log, it would probably just say "6 inch hunter"! All we can do is speculate.

Best,

Ron

[hammerdownnow]

Extreme Scagel influence apparent. Very, very nice.

[The "Captain"]

Boblade,
Everyone has theories. I believe that this trademark stamp, particularly by location and the amount of it "remaining", screams very early in the trademark "stamped" history of Randall knives. Looking to me as though it were stamped prior to the now commonly accepted "standard" placement area, only helps to stake the same claim! Very nice piece, dude! Looks like an early, first-stamped era, I'm gonna change and alter the initially-intended design and grind of this Randall type knife!! This can always be debated, but it is certainly a valid observation....again...nice piece, Best, Captain Chris Stanaback

[BoBlade]

Thanks Roc!

Cap: Thanks for weighing in, but you got me with your "I'm gonna change and alter the initially-intended design and grind of this Randall type knife" comment. Do I need to send it to you and get back a miniature of some sort?

Best,

Ron

[The "Captain"]

Ron,
What I was referring to was the fact that a good deal of the top half of the trademark stamp had been "worked" off of the blade, perhaps indicating a decision to change or alter the top bevel or grind somewhat by Bo, or whomever was building it at the time...not at a later date! Best, Captain Chris Stanaback

[BoBlade]

Got it, Cap. Thanks. Sometimes I ain't too swift

Best,

Ron

[brasshilt]

Well, these are certainly not prehistoric but good to look at none the less, my opinion

[brasshilt]

Lets try again

[BoBlade]

Those are some great Hunters, Brasshilt! A lot of guys collect fighters, but I think we can consider ourselves in good company when guys like Rhett and Jason says they prefer hunters as well. Those were Bo's 1st offerings and I think they are still are among the most popular. Any stories behind any of them? I have attempted to post a little better pics for the guys.

Best,

Ron

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