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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 07-30-2006, 10:55 AM
JLaw JLaw is offline
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New Guy Questions

I've been reading up in this forum the last two days, appears to be a wealth of knowledge here!

I've made only a few knives in the last two years. All have been out of 01 toolsteel, ground on a Craftsman tabletop belt grinder. The last knife made was a Christmas present for my uncle, it turned out beatiful (sorry, no pics...I'll try to get him to take a few and email them to me to post). I know with the right equipment the proccess can be sped up some, but it seemed like I had a ridiculous amount of time invested in this knife. Wish I'd have kept track, but I'd just work for an hour one night, come back to it in a few days, etc. Worked that way for about three weeks. Finishing the blade to a mirror polish was what took the longest.

I'm not in a financial position to make a big investment on a high dollar grinder, is there any better options out there than a Craftsman tabletop belt grinder that won't set me back $700.00? If not, I may start customizing some kit knives until the budget allows that kind of investment, it's lots of fun either way.

Thanks in advance for any input, and thanks for the great forum.

JLaw
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2006, 11:57 AM
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B.Finnigan B.Finnigan is offline
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You have just discovered why handmade knives cost what they do. It is not the materials, it is the time that must be put into them. After alot of practice you will find a few shortcuts that will speed the process up a little. Sandpaper, belts, polishing compound etc are not created equal. Some work better then others. If you are grinding on hardened steel without high quality belts it will take a very long time and burn up many belts.

I have been bladesmithing for just under two years and it still takes me 7-10 days to finish a knife. I make alot of small friction folders with 1 1/2" -1 3/4" blades and I can finish two of them in one day but they are the exception. Even though I have a 2x72 square wheel I only use it half the time. Each of my knives are finished with a combination of filing, grinding, stoning and hand sanding. I have never made a knife from start to finish just on a belt grinder. A good file can move as much metal as a grinding belt can but with a much lower potential for mishaps.

Just keep plugging and chugging along, if it's fun who cares how long it takes?

Last edited by B.Finnigan; 07-30-2006 at 12:04 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2006, 12:16 PM
Carey Quinn Carey Quinn is offline
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You might also check out the folks over at the Outpost. There is quite a bit of info about doing everything with minimal power equipment and hand tools. Real helpful people too.

Carey


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  #4  
Old 07-30-2006, 12:24 PM
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NJStricker NJStricker is offline
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The $50 Knife Shop by Wayne Goddard talks about making your own equipment, including belt grinders. There's also a guy that sells grinder plans on ebay for $30.

I work with a file right now. Very slow, but then I'm not in a hurry either.
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2006, 01:22 PM
JLaw JLaw is offline
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What kind of files would you all recommend for this? Something that can be found at a hardware store or more of a specialty item?

As far as the belt sander goes, I use it to get the outline of the blade and rough in the bevel, then do the rest by hand. Of course that is partly due to the fact that I'm probably using the wrong files, they do a horrible job and really gouge the metal.

JLaw
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  #6  
Old 07-30-2006, 01:54 PM
Lane Ritter Lane Ritter is offline
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I think the best looking knives I made were made with a file. I still have a long way to go, as far as control with a belt grinder. I use the hardware store type files, some of my older files seem better than some of the new made in china files. Keeping the file clean is important as far as the gouges go. I have a file cleaner, kind of a softer wire brush. And I use compressed air also.

I went from files to a 4X48, and it wasn't to bad. Stepping up to the 2" wide belt made things much faster, but mistakes happen allot faster also.

Lane
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2006, 02:04 PM
JLaw JLaw is offline
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Great advice, thanks to all for the quick responses!

JLaw
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  #8  
Old 07-30-2006, 04:08 PM
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NJStricker NJStricker is offline
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Pay the little bit extra and get the better files rather than the discount ones made in China. I've been using Nichols, but have a few older ones as well I picked up at yard sales. I use a drill and hacksaw to rough out the shape. I then use a 12 inch mill bastard file to finish the shape and cut the bevel. Then I clean it up with a single cut, then go to sand paper. Long process, but works for me.
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  #9  
Old 07-30-2006, 05:35 PM
AcridSaint AcridSaint is offline
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Chuck Richards from Woodchuck forge only grinds on a disc, you can get them cheap, even in the large range. I just saw a hardbor freight 6x48 belt sander w/ 12" disc for $300, much cheaper than $700, just a disc could be had for under $100 easy.

That being said, I still use a 4x36 belt sander and it works fine for me. I can get a knife to shape in about 30 min with that and an angle grinder. It seems like it took me months and hundreds of dollars for my first ventures, but it gets faster with time. I got my belt sander for $80 from harbor freight and it came with a 6" sanding disc attachment too, but I lost it

Harbor Frieght also has a 6x48 w/ 9" disc on sale for $160 right now, if my wife would give me the money I might get one, hah! 12" stand alone disc sander for $60, 4" stand alone for $30, or you could make your own for cheap. I've also seen Chuck talk about that before.

I don't know how you rough shaped your stock before, I started with a hacksaw and a dremel tool, but I can tell you that my angle grinder is worth its weight in... steel, to me. Can't afford a metal bandsaw, so this is what I've got to work with. Cost $10 new, from HF, and I got some metal cutting discs to go along with the grinding disc. The first day I had it, it was paid for.

Don't think I love HF or anything,I know they are super cheap and not that great, but for guys on a budget like us, they aren't so bad. I've ranted enough!

Regards,


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  #10  
Old 07-30-2006, 08:49 PM
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Woodchuck Forge Woodchuck Forge is offline
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Here's some pics of my disc. I don ot own a belt and get along fine. I use Grobet files from the local Mill supply. I use a round edge bastard file sinlge cut. Works great and give a nice bevel for your shoulders.


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Last edited by Woodchuck Forge; 11-22-2006 at 09:45 AM.
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2006, 08:43 PM
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How long does one disk last before you have to replace it.
Cheers Ron
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2006, 10:22 PM
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Woodchuck Forge Woodchuck Forge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo Park
How long does one disk last before you have to replace it.
Cheers Ron

That all depends on what you are grinding. I can get 10-15 minutes of hard grinding. Sometimes more sometimes less. I have found that I can accomplish more when the disc is running slower. I move more material with less heat and strain on myself and the billet. The key is knowing when to change tha disc. I would rather change too soon then try to push it and mess up a blade. the cost of a piece of sandpaper is minimal, 50 cents or so. So I cna grind an average blade for about $2.00. I do not buy the discs but buy 9x11 sheets and trim them in place. As I have said in other threads, this is what I leaned on and i really like using the disc. It has advantages and disadvantages just like the belt. Initial cost and space savings were my deciding factor. Good ludk and the most important thing is have fun.

Get it hot and hit it hard.

Chuck


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  #13  
Old 08-01-2006, 06:35 AM
JLaw JLaw is offline
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Very interesting thought to use a disc sander to grind, I hadn't thought about that. Do you grind your bevels on that too, or just use the file.

Also, when I go to buy quality files, I suppose it will say on the packaging if it's a single cut file??

JLaw
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  #14  
Old 08-01-2006, 09:34 AM
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Woodchuck Forge Woodchuck Forge is offline
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JLaw,
I forge to shape, try to get between 80-90% and sometimes even closer. I clean up the profile and grind bevels, even shape handles flatten stock de burr, etc. All on the disc. If you are going for a flat grind then a disc is the way to go. I did a bit if stock removal on my first disc and it worked fine. A reversing disc IMHO is a must. Grind edge up with the disc feeding into it. If you try to grind the other way you wind up with a face full of grit. A Variable speed is great and I will never go back to a single speed motor. RPM should be in the 1750 range, 3600 is too fast. I used a 1/2 horse 1750 rpm single speed for many years. It was cheap (free) and I had a friend make me the disc (free). So i strated with what I could afford. It was not until much later i got into the stuff I can't afford.

Files, I found 2 I like. simmonds and grobet. You can get them at mill supply or chainsaw supply stores. They are round edge bastard files or sometimes called goofy files. The round edge allows for a radius cut at the shoulders. I use 8" or larger. Single cut has one set of lines accross the face of the file, no criss cross pattern.
Eventually you will find yourself with a few hundred laying around. This is when you decide it may be a good time to take up forging, if you haven't already. They do get dull and need to be repalced. As with sandpaper don't force it or you could hurt yourself.

Good luck

Chuck


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Last edited by Woodchuck Forge; 08-01-2006 at 09:38 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-01-2006, 11:25 AM
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NJStricker NJStricker is offline
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AcridSaint,

What belts are you using on a 4x36? I've looked around a little, and all I've been able to find are aluminum oxide belts.
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