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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #31  
Old 08-07-2016, 12:01 AM
Alphard Alphard is offline
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Guys how can I find out precisely what is the metal alloy of a heavy block?
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  #32  
Old 08-07-2016, 04:41 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Other options for a scrounged starter anvil that work:
1 - Broken forklift tine driven into a stump with the end ground flat, it's already hardened (still use one).
2 - RxR coupling knuckle with a flat spot ground on it, already hardened (used one for a while, not the best but worked).
3 - Reject or Broken granite graveyard head stone, very first "anvil" (still have it and use it occasionally for grins)
4 - Big block of steel (as mentioned before)
5 - Section of RxR track (not my favorite due to mass configuration - too springy and too loud).
6 - Large 20# or larger sledge hammer head with one end flattened and the other secured in concrete or hardened clay (have used one in a pinch, works great but small surface)
7 - End of a "Large" - talking 4" or bigger - pump shaft (still use one, shortened as a bench anvil)

Case hardened steel and hardened CI will crack under normal smithing work.

Simply put, you want something with mass and resistance to distortion or cracking that will handle striking with a large hammer. As Doug said, the hot steel will be much softer than any of the above listed and will move under the hammer blows. Just don't hit cold things....bad practice even on a quality anvil.

If you are in or near a town/city/village with a population of 15,000 people, I am willing to bet I could find a suitable anvil in less than a week. Now whether or not it will be for sale is another issue, but they are there. The anvil is one of the oldest tools known to man and has been in use ever since man figured out what a hammer does. Don't get locked into "It has to look like an ANVIL to be an anvil." Use what you have until you can upgrade to something better.


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  #33  
Old 08-07-2016, 07:13 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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About the hard surface rods, as you get deeper into studying how and why steel acts like it does you'll find that carbon isn't the only alloying element . A hard surface rod has combinations of alloy that are in the wire (rod) and the flux coating. These alloys can cause the weld material to do everything from work harden very well (Nicromang) to be very hard (Stoody 33) and every point in between.

Your best option is to hit the scrap yard. RR track or forklift tine will be good choices.
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  #34  
Old 08-07-2016, 11:06 AM
Alphard Alphard is offline
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Location: Minas Gerais, Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmccustomknives View Post
About the hard surface rods, as you get deeper into studying how and why steel acts like it does you'll find that carbon isn't the only alloying element . A hard surface rod has combinations of alloy that are in the wire (rod) and the flux coating. These alloys can cause the weld material to do everything from work harden very well (Nicromang) to be very hard (Stoody 33) and every point in between.

Your best option is to hit the scrap yard. RR track or forklift tine will be good choices.
Alright, I'll try a tine. Maybe I'll call a tine company or something and see if I can get a broken one
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  #35  
Old 08-07-2016, 11:07 AM
Alphard Alphard is offline
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Location: Minas Gerais, Brazil
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crex View Post
Other options for a scrounged starter anvil that work:
1 - Broken forklift tine driven into a stump with the end ground flat, it's already hardened (still use one).
2 - RxR coupling knuckle with a flat spot ground on it, already hardened (used one for a while, not the best but worked).
3 - Reject or Broken granite graveyard head stone, very first "anvil" (still have it and use it occasionally for grins)
4 - Big block of steel (as mentioned before)
5 - Section of RxR track (not my favorite due to mass configuration - too springy and too loud).
6 - Large 20# or larger sledge hammer head with one end flattened and the other secured in concrete or hardened clay (have used one in a pinch, works great but small surface)
7 - End of a "Large" - talking 4" or bigger - pump shaft (still use one, shortened as a bench anvil)

Case hardened steel and hardened CI will crack under normal smithing work.

Simply put, you want something with mass and resistance to distortion or cracking that will handle striking with a large hammer. As Doug said, the hot steel will be much softer than any of the above listed and will move under the hammer blows. Just don't hit cold things....bad practice even on a quality anvil.

If you are in or near a town/city/village with a population of 15,000 people, I am willing to bet I could find a suitable anvil in less than a week. Now whether or not it will be for sale is another issue, but they are there. The anvil is one of the oldest tools known to man and has been in use ever since man figured out what a hammer does. Don't get locked into "It has to look like an ANVIL to be an anvil." Use what you have until you can upgrade to something better.
I'm gonna try and get a tine then, seems good
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  #36  
Old 08-07-2016, 12:03 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Hardfacing weld rod is a special alloy similar to 5160 or H12 in carbon content.

It is welded onto surfaces and because it cools so fast it hardens. They have differing amounts of carbon and some are very specialized, but you just need the regular hardfacing rod that is, at least here in the US available at any welding supply store and stores like Northern Tool.

Low carbon rod, which is what most weld rod is DOES NOT harden. Ask your Father if he can get hardfacing rod as even in Brazil they need to hardface farm equipment and construction machinery. It goes by many names, but Google "hardfacing weld rod in Brazil", you can get it on Amazon though I'm not sure about Brazil. Don't use it on hi-carbon cast iron though as it would tend to crack. On regular low-carbon steel it won't be as hard as cast would be and you don't want it to be too hard anyway.


Your Dad being in the welding business should know about some of this and about hardfacing rod. A 10lb or 4 kilo box for a stick welder is about $42 American. It runs about $16 per half kilo or 1lb. box. It should be available there. Again, do an internet search for it. Better would be to surface heat treat a cheap cast iron anvil if that's available to you like I instructed.

Have your Dad message me here on the Forum for specifics if he needs them.
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  #37  
Old 08-07-2016, 12:53 PM
Alphard Alphard is offline
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Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
It is welded onto surfaces and because it cools so fast it hardens. They have differing amounts of carbon and some are very specialized, but you just need the regular hardfacing rod that is, at least here in the US available at any welding supply store and stores like Northern Tool.

Low carbon rod, which is what most weld rod is DOES NOT harden. Ask your Father if he can get hardfacing rod as even in Brazil they need to hardface farm equipment and construction machinery. It goes by many names, but Google "hardfacing weld rod in Brazil", you can get it on Amazon though I'm not sure about Brazil. Don't use it on hi-carbon cast iron though as it would tend to crack. On regular low-carbon steel it won't be as hard as cast would be and you don't want it to be too hard anyway.


Your Dad being in the welding business should know about some of this and about hardfacing rod. A 10lb or 4 kilo box for a stick welder is about $42 American. It runs about $16 per half kilo or 1lb. box. It should be available there. Again, do an internet search for it. Better would be to surface heat treat a cheap cast iron anvil if that's available to you like I instructed.

Have your Dad message me here on the Forum for specifics if he needs them.
I understand what you mean. I've seen those rods many times before, I just didn't know they could be used for face hardening. I'll talk to my dad tomorrow and ask if he can do that.

Now I'm gonna decide the specifics about a forge. Do you have links to tutorials or websites where I can study about forges to further detail? Videos are good too. I'm gonna pour some more days of study in it and if I get more questions I'll come back
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  #38  
Old 08-07-2016, 01:09 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Must disagree Carl on HT CI.

I do not know if case hardened steel will crack under smithing work, but I know that heat treated cast iron does not. The trick is to not get it harder than your hammer. My brother still uses that anvil I hardened for him in 2003. A cheap anvil will get harder over time from work and heat hardening anyway, using a torch just speeds it up. Problem with work hardening is it gets a bunch of dents along the way. What you want when finished is a dark blue to purple surface, not blackened. I only hardened the flat surface and the square punch hole, not the notch or the horn. When done properly you end up with a nice differential HT.

Hardfaced steel will not crack either if you use the regular H12 or similar alloy rod. Never cracked when I hard faced track hoe teeth or plow disc hitting rock or when I used it to weld broken brush hog blades either. The blades did need preheating though. Don't want too hard mowing blades anyway as they often break. A neighbor bought some made in China blades and regretted it as they All broke.
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  #39  
Old 08-07-2016, 01:46 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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for foges ray has a dvd ....I don't know about sending it to brazil tho ask him....I thought they were very complicated till I seen his video and found out they actually very very simple steel body insulation (inswool/satinite) and burners (wich are also pretty easy) I made 2 very quick videos showing my 2 forges and the different types of burners I have....I made it for another person I met online its not crazy detailed but I do explain how it works again very simple if you send me your email adrees in a private message ill send you the videos... I don't want to post these on you tube or anything like that but ill send them to you
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  #40  
Old 08-07-2016, 02:32 PM
Alphard Alphard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
I do not know if case hardened steel will crack under smithing work, but I know that heat treated cast iron does not. The trick is to not get it harder than your hammer. My brother still uses that anvil I hardened for him in 2003. A cheap anvil will get harder over time from work and heat hardening anyway, using a torch just speeds it up. Problem with work hardening is it gets a bunch of dents along the way. What you want when finished is a dark blue to purple surface, not blackened. I only hardened the flat surface and the square punch hole, not the notch or the horn. When done properly you end up with a nice differential HT.

Hardfaced steel will not crack either if you use the regular H12 or similar alloy rod. Never cracked when I hard faced track hoe teeth or plow disc hitting rock or when I used it to weld broken brush hog blades either. The blades did need preheating though. Don't want too hard mowing blades anyway as they often break. A neighbor bought some made in China blades and regretted it as they All broke.
Wouldn't the dents not be an issue if you repair the anvil when they get troubleesome?
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  #41  
Old 08-07-2016, 02:34 PM
Alphard Alphard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtec1 View Post
for foges ray has a dvd ....I don't know about sending it to brazil tho ask him....I thought they were very complicated till I seen his video and found out they actually very very simple steel body insulation (inswool/satinite) and burners (wich are also pretty easy) I made 2 very quick videos showing my 2 forges and the different types of burners I have....I made it for another person I met online its not crazy detailed but I do explain how it works again very simple if you send me your email adrees in a private message ill send you the videos... I don't want to post these on you tube or anything like that but ill send them to you
PM sent
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  #42  
Old 08-07-2016, 03:12 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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just checked didn't see it try again or ill send you one when I get a min later
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  #43  
Old 08-07-2016, 03:13 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Originally Posted by Alphard View Post
Wouldn't the dents not be an issue if you repair the anvil when they get troubleesome?
think of it this way, if the dents in the anvil are greater than the dents your going to leave with the hammer then it's a problem. Otherwise you can take a ball peen hammer and work around the dent with the hammer to smooth it out. Eventually the face will compress the same and be somewhat smooth. I have a forklift tine anvil that hasn't dented at all. It's just for knife making and not heavy forging though. Most of the time those dents in the anvil face come from wild hammer strikes.
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  #44  
Old 08-07-2016, 03:37 PM
Alphard Alphard is offline
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Originally Posted by dtec1 View Post
just checked didn't see it try again or ill send you one when I get a min later
it seems I sent it as visitor message lol
im new to this forum
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  #45  
Old 08-07-2016, 04:34 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok no prob I just sent you a prive message
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