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The Outpost This forum is dedicated to all who share a love for, and a desire to make good knives, and have fun doing it. We represent a diverse group of smiths and knifemakers who bring numerous methods to their craft.

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  #1  
Old 04-09-2001, 10:36 AM
Kevin Isler
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Forge welding chain


I had the chains replaced on my printing press today and so now I have about 12' of chain slightly smaller than motorcycle chain... and my repairman sez he'll save me the used chains from now on. He does about one a week.
I've twist welded cable but I've heard chain is a whole different animal. Any tips or tribal voodoo?
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2001, 11:46 AM
Dana Acker
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I tried welding some cable but without much success. Then I become busy and never got back to it. First of all, I soaked the chain in kerosene for a couple of weeks to degrease it. Then I laid out a section about 18" in length and folded it back over itself two or three times, so I a stack of about 3 or so layers. I wrapped baling wire around the ends and the center to hold it together.

It was difficult to work with as it was as I said in a previous post, "like forging a dead snake." When I got it fluxed and up to welding temp I began to hammer it and got some welds to stick, but it was just a jumbled mess of steel with links broken off and sticking out every where. I was hammering on what would be the considered either the top or bottom of the chain as it would be on a machine, and not the sides, where the flat links are pinned through.

Someone suggested that I wire up the chain as previously described, get it to welding temp, then twist it to make it more of a solid mass as opposed to dead snakelike. I did this, but again had numerous link pieces pull loose, and when it was done looked more like an LSD inspired, weird art cactus made out of machine chain. I never went past that point as it was near Christmas and I had orders to fill. I'm wondering now if it would be better to hammer on the side of the chain, compressing the two links towards each other. It would make for a longer thinner billet, but several billets of this type could then be welded in to one with more mass. But I don't know. Tai once said that with cable and chain, that the more times it was folded the more the pattern diminished. I might invite him over to comment on this subject. He's got about 20 + years experience doing this stuff. Also Bruce Evans was supposed to be putting out a tutorial on chain welding.

I'm glad you brought this topic up. I really would like to get back into it and give it a try again. Let's hope we get some good responses.

But while we wait, go ahead and be degreasing your chain. It will have to be good and clean in order to insure a weld.
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  #3  
Old 04-09-2001, 12:42 PM
moldy Jim
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Weld chain


How about folding the chain up like an acordian and threading a piece of square stock thru the spaces between the links to hold it in line? The chain should and have a clear shot thru the spaces to line it up.
That way you could add another element or alloy to the mix.
Kevin, what type of press do you guy's use?
I only ask cause I wrked for a printing press manufacturer back in the 70"s.
Mark Andy Co. was the name of the company, I was just wondering if they were still in business.
Moldy

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  #4  
Old 04-09-2001, 01:47 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Re: Weld chain


I'm sure you'll have much better luck forging the chain from the sides instead of the top. That way, the roller pins and rollers are compressed and the side plates have something to weld to. Otherwise, there's not much for the chain to weld to if you get my meaning. It would be like trying to weld two pieces of steel by laying them down side by side on the anvil as compared to stacking them. See what I mean? That's probably why you were having a hard time welding chain Dana.

When I weld up chainsaw chain, I stack the chain side to side. The idea is to keep the preform billet as square as possible within reason. The larger billet you want to end up with, the more layers and rows of chains you'll have to stack up. Don't give up on it. Stack them side to side and I'll bet you have luck the first time out. That's the way it happened for me. And I KNOW I got lucky

Also, to keep the group of chains more stiff for the initial welds, just double wire them about every 2". The 'dead snake' problem will go away as long as you get the wire nice and tight.
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  #5  
Old 04-09-2001, 02:04 PM
Kevin Isler
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Re: Weld chain


Thanks guys, that gives me some ideas. I was thinking of using a coat hanger to "sew it" together, accorordian style like Moldy described and bang it with the roller pins vertical to the anvil. The chain is off an ABDick 9800, I'd like to get my hands on some Heidleberg press chains, they're about 3 times the dimension of a motorcycle chain. Big monsters! Any other insites are more than welcome.
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  #6  
Old 04-09-2001, 02:22 PM
Dana Acker
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Re: Weld chain


You might try heating and quenching a piece to make sure it will harden. Not all chains are hardenable. Also watchout for the presence of any stainless--very difficult to weld (so I've heard).
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  #7  
Old 04-09-2001, 07:08 PM
Glenn forty7
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Re: Weld chain


With Chain saw chain,it is best to weld it flat.Wired together.Use enough chain to make the desired size billet so a minimum of folding is needed,as Tai suggests the pattern diminishes with folds.The main problem I have is getting ash ect in the open areas and welding them into the billet,then to have them appear as I am filing.A gas forge would solve this but for now I prefer coal.--G--
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  #8  
Old 04-20-2001, 07:23 PM
LPowell
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Hey, guys:
I have been curious about what a piece of chainsaw damascus would look like. Anybody have any pics they can point me to? I'd like to try to make a blade from forge welding chainsaw chain after I make myself a forge. I am betting it produces a *killer* pattern.
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  #9  
Old 04-21-2001, 09:25 AM
Dana Acker
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Re: Forge welded chain knife pics...


Hey there, Larry. Glad you stopped by the NT Outpost. I don't have the link right in front of me, but if you click on my website address at the bottom of this post, and go to the links section, check out Max Burnett's website--I'm not sure he has a photo, but he might as he's done some chainsaw damascus. Heck while you're there on the links page, check out Kevin, NT's own "Mad Mongoose's" website too. One other place you might check for photos is on Bruce Evan's website. Go to the CKD main forum and go to their maker's links page--you can get to his website from there. He's done some chain damascus too--he may also have photos. Happy hunting and don't be a stranger over here.

By the way NT'ers if you go over to the main CKD forum and go to the "Supply Center" forum, this brother did some great research on the steel types used for Railroad spikes. Got the info from manufacturers--very worthwhile to read. Hats off to Larry.
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  #10  
Old 04-21-2001, 06:05 PM
ron Claiborne
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forge welding chain


hello Kevin
you will be able to weld chain its great and looks great where most fail is trying to go to fast and pushing the links apart reather than moving them closer together and thats all their is to it just keep moving it closer
I have welded all types of chain but chainsaw chain but i sure its about the same ,
dont worry about cleaning chain the fire will do that for you . remember thas what fire does - wire as much as you fell you can work i personaly wind it around in a oblong shape wnd wire it every 2" apart till its ridig and if you are using coal build a large egloo type fire , i use mule team for flux noithing fancy here if the temp is welding then you will stick it together hammer the sides real easy and then consentrate on making thething close in on its self
when you think its welded keep going this stuff has a lot of air to remove treat each heat like a weld bring it up each time to a even temp and the flux bubbling you should have a few peaces to not weld dont get discuraged it will happen just belive it will and see it going together
once you have tryed a few times you will have learn all the thing not to do so dont just try one time you will be cheating yourself of a great steel and some really ( wow facto rlooks ) Bowie
ps over look spelling your spell check throws me out sorry
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  #11  
Old 04-23-2001, 10:43 AM
JOHN
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WELDING CHAINSAW CHAIN


WELL I WENT OUT THIS WEEKEND AND WELDED SOME CHAINSAW CHAIN. IT WENT TO GETHER PRETTY WELL CONSIDERING 8IT WAS MY SECOND ATTEMPT. THE BLADE IS A BIG WIDE THING IT HAS A FEW COLD SHUTS THROUGH OUT BUT AGAIN I CAN ONLY GET BETTER. I THINK THE KEY IS SLOW HEAT AND SOAK AT WELD FOR A MINUTE OR SO. IN MY CASE I THINK I WAS USING TOO MUCH CHAIN I FOLDED 4 CHAINS THEN STACKED THEM AND WIRED. GONNA TRY LATER WITH ONLY 2
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  #12  
Old 04-23-2001, 02:10 PM
Dana Acker
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Re: WELDING CHAINSAW CHAIN


Howdy John, welcome to the forum. Keep us posted on your chain welding progress. Show us some pictures if you can when you get a blade done.

Hey Bowie, thanks for the input. Do you ever weld motorcycle chain? Do you hammer the sides of the chain, or the top. Do you prepare the chain as you said above? The more info the better. Show us some pictures too, if you can.
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2001, 02:39 PM
JOHN
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FORGE WELDING CHAIN


I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BUT THIS IS OAK WELL I USUALLY RESPOND ON HERE TO OAK BUT WHEN I SIGNED IN TODAY IT USED JOHN NOT SURE IF I CREATED A NEW ACCOUNT OR WHAT : )
OAK UMMM JOHN WHOEVER I AM
HEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHEH
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  #14  
Old 04-23-2001, 02:45 PM
Dana Acker
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Re: FORGE WELDING CHAIN


Howdy Oak, didn't recognize you by your proper name. Still think you might want to do a trade sometime? If so, send me an e-mail--you can get to me through my website link at the bottom of this post.
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2001, 06:06 PM
john
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forge welding chain


dana i always wanna trade knives : ) what kinda knives you wanna trade?i make a buncha full tang with no bolster knives would you be interested in something like that i do a few hidden tang with guardss also but my guards arent that great.i have been trying the hot punch the tang thru the guard method lately its working a bit better.
is photo[point still free? i have a picture of the chainsaw chain knife but dont know how to post. i will email it to someone if they will postt it. if anyone can do this email me at oakforge13@aol.com

thanks oak john? who am i this time : )
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